Opinions on my combo please

claypoolxx · Jan 21, 2022

Hi, I'm finally going to be able to spend some time on my car. I am trying to make a fun cruiser that will do some autocross events and maybe a few HPDE, but will never see a drag strip. I am going to have pay for some labor, so I am trying to keep it simple. I have a 93 hatch with:

302 with what I believe to be either a B or E cam. For my purposes, I don't now if it really matters to check.
Was able to score some ported x302 aluminum heads with 1.6 roller rockers for $600. Had new seals installed and milled slightly.
Cobra intake
70mm throttle body

My plan was throw the heads on and get a tune. My concerns are if the fuel pump and injectors are able to keep up. If I get larger injectors, can I drive it to the tuner with a stock tune or should they be changed there? Will I also need a larger MAF or can a tune take care of that?

I see most people would say port the lower intake, but if I'm not going to drag race and very rarely get to 6000rpm, would it matter much? If I could get an honest 270-280 to the wheels, I think I'd be happy. Does it sound like my combo will get me there? Thanks

Dan02gt · Jan 21, 2022

That combo should get you what you are looking HP wise. You will need larger injectors and fuel pump. I would recommend a 155 Walbro for the fuel pump. For fuel injectors go with 30lbs with a matching ProM MAF. Your car should run well with these parts and no tune, but a tune will always help with minor drivability issues.

You can port the lower intake yourself if you want, and I'm sure it's worth a few HP up top. Tmoss has a good write up on it.

fun331 · Jan 21, 2022

My 89 made 280 hp and 321 ft/lbs to the wheels with an E cam, performer EFI intake and some built 289 heads (1.94/1.60 valves and around 52-53 cc's if I remember right). Your ported aluminums should work as well or better. I swapped in a C&L 73 MAF and 24 lb/hr injectors, Holley 70 mm TB and 70 mm EGR spacer; plus a 155 LPH Walbro fuel pump.
The stock 19 lb/hr injectors are "supposed" to be good to 350 engine hp, but bigger ones will keep her from going lean. As far as I know you'll have to swap the MAF to match the bigger injectors. The stock MAF and EGR spacer might be a bit small diameter wise for the HP you want but if cash is tight they should work for a bit. I added an adjustable fuel pressure regulator (set to 40 PSI) before I went to the dyno.
The swap sure made my car a LOT more fun.

Noobz347 · Jan 21, 2022

Take a look through this thread. You can get an idea of what the torque curve with B and E cams will look like with various other components.

Guess My H P !!! - The Dyno & 1/4 Mile Time Thread

UPDATE - FastDriver (26AUG13): After some recent interest in the forums, this thread is again active. Please feel free to add your own dyno, timeslip, and mods. The more details you can provide, the better. Posts without documentation will eventually be deleted. This thread exists to give...

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KRUISR · Jan 21, 2022

I think with that combo of heads and intake/TB you could reach your goals with stock cam. I also think the 19 lb injectors would work as well for what you have said you will be doing. Here is why I believe that.

My current combo is stock bottom end, GT40 3-bar heads with smoothed ports intake and exhaust, Explorer EGR upper and lowers (untouched), 70mm TB and EGR, 1.7 RR , C&L 76mm (had a 73mm on before with no noticeable difference) and a Crower 15512 cam. Up until this past summer I had Explorer 19s in the car. I have a dual wideband installed so that I can monitor my AFRs. I also have an Anderson PMS hooked up that I am currently using as a monitoring device, I have not started to tune. With the 19s my AFRs were great through entire power band (I would shift my AOD at 5500 when doing a 1/4 mile run on the street - finishing at just under 5000 and 103 mph). AFRs were low 13s, but my injector duty cycle would peak at 95% when up around 5500. For the duty cycle reason I upgraded to 24s this year and a different calibration tube for the 76mm.

If you are not chasing high rpm runs (5000+) the stock cam should give you as good or better power below 3000rpm. If you keep the 19s, your stock computer should work great and I would get a larger MAF. From my experience, I would get a C&L 73 and the clear tube and you should be good to go. I would recommend a set of Explorer 19s as well (they have 4 output holes vs the stock 1). I would also get a larger fuel pump.

claypoolxx · Jan 22, 2022

Thanks guys sort of what I figured. I've been looking to see if anyone local has a used set up, but its not looking good. There seems to many options for injectors. If I went new, would I be ok with the bosch type 3 EV1 style ones from LMR? They have the 30lb ones for $240.

General karthief · Jan 22, 2022

Cross reference them on Rockauto, you may be surprised at the price difference.

Dan02gt · Jan 22, 2022

Just make sure you go with a well known vendor for the injectors. Stay away from Amazon and eBay. Believe it or not there are lots counterfeit injectors out there.

2000xp8 · Jan 24, 2022

First off, don't underestimate ported X heads.
They are not bad heads, they just come from the factory flawed, so ported and valve jobbed puts them quite a bit closer to some of the better heads.
With that said, if you don't have the receipt for the head work (or some kind of definitive proof), take them to your own guy, even if it costs a few bucks.

I would absolutely not run 19's or 30's. Just find some used blue ford racing injectors.
This combination is fairly basic and should run well, don't complicate it by risking undersized injectors or what is surely to be way too big 30's.
Run a 155lph pump and a pro m meter calibrated for 24's.

ebone84 · Jan 24, 2022

I have some blue top 24s I need to get rid of inbox me .......

claypoolxx · Jan 25, 2022

I already ordered a walbro 155 pump. It seems as though most people think that 24s would be ok. Definitely not going to get those amazon injectors that are $50 for all 8. I figure quality used parts are better than new junk. I have had the heads checked. New seals and a very slight mill job to make sure its perfectly straight. Machinist said the porting looked like quality work. I figured that anything is better than the e7 heads and I couldn't turn these down for the price. Thanks for the help.

Dan02gt · Jan 25, 2022

24s will work they will just be at the top of their recommended duty cycle.

2000xp8 · Jan 25, 2022

Dan02gt said:
24s will work they will just be at the top of their recommended duty cycle.

Maybe on paper, but in the real world they are not that close.
Think about this, technically you can (probably shouldn't) get away with the Trick flow kit on 19's.
With an unknown cam, X heads and a cobra intake, he very well could be in 19's territory.
24's are safe bet, 30's could potentially be an entire injector size off.

revhead347 · Jan 27, 2022

claypoolxx said:
Hi, I'm finally going to be able to spend some time on my car. I am trying to make a fun cruiser that will do some autocross events and maybe a few HPDE, but will never see a drag strip. I am going to have pay for some labor, so I am trying to keep it simple. I have a 93 hatch with:

302 with what I believe to be either a B or E cam. For my purposes, I don't now if it really matters to check.
Was able to score some ported x302 aluminum heads with 1.6 roller rockers for $600. Had new seals installed and milled slightly.
Cobra intake
70mm throttle body

My plan was throw the heads on and get a tune. My concerns are if the fuel pump and injectors are able to keep up. If I get larger injectors, can I drive it to the tuner with a stock tune or should they be changed there? Will I also need a larger MAF or can a tune take care of that?

I see most people would say port the lower intake, but if I'm not going to drag race and very rarely get to 6000rpm, would it matter much? If I could get an honest 270-280 to the wheels, I think I'd be happy. Does it sound like my combo will get me there? Thanks

The 306 engine I built for our Cobra car has x302 heads, 1.6 rockers, with a Cobra intake, and an off the shelf Comp Cams grind. Skip the alphabet cam, and get a better camshaft. It made 302hp to the wheels. Since it was a fresh engine build, we had the block 0 decked to bump the compression from 9.0:1 to 9.7:1. So you won't be able to take advantage of that, but I really don't think it makes much difference. The heads were not ported. The intake was ported by TMoss; best money you will ever spend. Even if you don't need the port work, he refreshes the appearance of the intake to look like new. That brings the intake up to a 250cfm flow rate, which is just over the 249cfms the stock x302 heads flow. We used the factory 24lb/hr Cobra injectors with no problems. If you want more details, I will post them.

Kurt

claypoolxx · Jan 27, 2022

If I were going to change the cam I’d go with some comp xe grind. But I’m a “while you’re in there” type of guy and a $300 cam will wind up costing me a grand. Motor was refreshed at some point and runs well. I figure the heads will get me 30-40hp and that would make me happy.

I’ve had the car for a couple years now and haven’t really had a chance to drive it much. I’m hoping with my buddy we could have it done in a couple of weekends. Walbro 155 pump came today and I’m on the look out for a pro m MAF and some 24lb injectors. I’d love to have it complete for early April when the local autocross club is looking to rent out Lime Rock. Otherwise I’ll be taking the civic.

90sickfox · Jan 27, 2022

claypoolxx said:
If I were going to change the cam I’d go with some comp xe grind. But I’m a “while you’re in there” type of guy and a $300 cam will wind up costing me a grand. Motor was refreshed at some point and runs well. I figure the heads will get me 30-40hp and that would make me happy.

I’ve had the car for a couple years now and haven’t really had a chance to drive it much. I’m hoping with my buddy we could have it done in a couple of weekends. Walbro 155 pump came today and I’m on the look out for a pro m MAF and some 24lb injectors. I’d love to have it complete for early April when the local autocross club is looking to rent out Lime Rock. Otherwise I’ll be taking the civic.

Who are you cussing at here ^^^^^^

Civic ? Lol

96pushrod · Jan 27, 2022

2000xp8 said:
Maybe on paper, but in the real world they are not that close.
Think about this, technically you can (probably shouldn't) get away with the Trick flow kit on 19's.
With an unknown cam, X heads and a cobra intake, he very well could be in 19's territory.
24's are safe bet, 30's could potentially be an entire injector size off.

How are 24s a safe bet, but 30s aren’t?

claypoolxx · Jan 27, 2022

90sickfox said:
Who are you cussing at here ^^^^^^

Civic ? Lol

At least it's an Si. 11 years old with 140k and besides tires, oil, and brakes, all I've done is an O2 sensor. I can't complain.

General karthief · Jan 27, 2022

A civic is a good dependable driver.

2000xp8 · Jan 28, 2022

96pushrod said:
How are 24s a safe bet, but 30s aren’t?

In my experience any time you exceed 1 full injector size past what is actually necessary you make the car run worse, not better.
Personally, i'm a fan of running the injector you need at the time, especially if tuning isn't involved.
There is pretty much zero chance this car needs 30's, so...

Opinions on my combo please

claypoolxx

Member

Dan02gt

mazing how much gas smell came from that tiny hole

fun331

Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

Guess My H P !!! - The Dyno & 1/4 Mile Time Thread

KRUISR

claypoolxx

Member

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

Dan02gt

mazing how much gas smell came from that tiny hole

2000xp8

ebone84

claypoolxx

Member

Dan02gt

mazing how much gas smell came from that tiny hole

2000xp8

revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.

claypoolxx

Member

90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands

96pushrod

I think they're a little easier to get off

claypoolxx

Member

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

2000xp8

Similar threads

Opinions on my combo please

Member

mazing how much gas smell came from that tiny hole

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

Member

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

mazing how much gas smell came from that tiny hole

Member

mazing how much gas smell came from that tiny hole

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.

Member

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands

I think they're a little easier to get off

Member

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

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