Ordered Intake what else?

PhLoBuS · Dec 6, 2004

I ordered up a TF Street Heat and I am getting a 75mm accufab TB with it since the opening of it is 75mm. I ordered upper and lower intake kit. right here: http://www.mustangwarehouse.com/mustang_1.mvc?p=TFS-51511001&Category_Code=50A1

Now will that have all the proper gaskets and everything?
Will I need this: http://www.mustangwarehouse.com/mustang_1.mvc?p=TFS-EFI-KIT1&Category_Code=50A5

Also will I need to change my mass air sensor?? Let me know!!

Jason 302 · Dec 6, 2004

It should come with all the gaskets and hardware, if not I'd say you got jipped. Also, you don't need a bigger MAF but I'm sure it would open up some hp. If you plan on heads and cam in the future, you will need to send it back to have it reprogrammed for bigger injectors, because you will need them. Or you could slap some bigger injectors on right now and run a tad rich for a while, or just leave your stock MAF there until you get some heads and cam. It's all what you have planned. If you don't plan on heads, get a Pro-M or C&L for you stock injectors and gain 5-10 hp.

5spd GT · Dec 6, 2004

You might want to check out this thread before ordering from there...I would suggest ordering from Summitracing instead...

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=522743

Also on that "hardware kit" (your second link)...I did a search with the part number on summit and got this..."Hardware Kit, Intake Manifold, TFS Street/ TFS Track Heat, Ford EFI, NO Gaskets"...It says "no gaskets"...hmm...?

http://store.summitracing.com/defau...=100&Ntk=PartSearch&Ntt=TFS-EFI-KIT1&x=13&y=7

I would suggest not getting the 75mm TB...that is to big for your application...a 75mm is only truly beneficial with a stroker or blown combo...a 65 or 70mm...would be better for you...

I know my Performer intake came with the upper/lower gasket and all the nuts/bolts/plugs/etc...with it...

I had to buy the lower gasket seperatly which was a FEL-1250...

Good Luck

Grn92LX · Dec 6, 2004

Good choice on the TB, it will NOT hurt you. If only I was that smart back then instead believed the idiotic TB myths on the net Im running a 75mm on my n/a 302 with the TFS intake. Ask anyone who knows what their talking about and they'll say match the TB to the inlet of the manifold like you did Theres a guy on this site who had a bolt on 94/95 cobra with an edelbrock intake. He went from stock tb to 70mm and GAINED 11hp, he then went from a 70mm to 75mm (with opened up inlet for 75mm) and GAINED repeat GAINED 4hp and thats on a bolt on 302 Another example of a GAIN, a guy on the corral with a tfs/fti combo stock shortblock 302 went from a 70 to 75mm tb and gained almost a full mph.

Fwiw, I have bought from mustangwarehouse and the transaction was fine.

nmcgrawj · Dec 6, 2004

5spd GT said:
I would suggest not getting the 75mm TB...that is to big for your application...a 75mm is only truly beneficial with a stroker or blown combo...a 65 or 70mm...would be better for you...

Whats the point in having a 75mm opening then? Why put something smaller in front of that? What proof do you have that he shouldnt go with a 75mm and that it will hurt him?

Maybe he should downsize in his intake and get a smaller TB

Rock777 · Dec 6, 2004

I ordered that same intake from mustangwarehouse and it included everything needed except the lower intake to heads gaskets. I bought that from summit, fel-pro 1250 as well. Oh, you will also have to buy the 4 studs and nuts that screw into the upper intake and the tb slides onto. By the way, I had no problems with MustangWarehouse either. As far as a maf, as Jason pointed out, it will help maximize air flow since you will have a much higher flowing intake, but is up to you.

Grn92LX · Dec 6, 2004

You don't need new studs and nuts for the TB. Re-use your stock ones.

5spd GT · Dec 6, 2004

nmcgrawj said:
Whats the point in having a 75mm opening then? Why put something smaller in front of that? What proof do you have that he shouldnt go with a 75mm and that it will hurt him?

Maybe he should downsize in his intake and get a smaller TB

It is all called a power curve...a 4hp gain is a very small gain...I bet a cold air intake provides a 4hp gain somewhere in the power curve over the stock rubber box...if that is how you want to look at it...

Despite the velocity bias...you do need some sort of velocity (hence why Ed recommended me a Performer intake) to help with low end grunt to get my car up and moving...

You two are just a bunch of Jay Allen buds...I'm not worried about your "philosophy" ...Talk to Michael Yount about the need for a 75mm TB on a car that is daily driven...

You only truly benefit from them on a stroked or blown combo...

A 65mm or 70mm provide plenty of flow for all around driveability...

Grn92LX · Dec 6, 2004

Funny you say that, david as ED CURTIS recommended the 75mm TB for me But yes, jay allen will be doing my next cam when I step up to a stroker. As I listed, you BENEFIT from it on pump gas n/a 302's as well

5spd GT · Dec 6, 2004

Grn92LX said:
Funny you say that, david as ED CURTIS recommended the 75mm TB for me But yes, jay allen will be doing my next cam when I step up to a stroker. As I listed, you BENEFIT from it on pump gas n/a 302's as well

He did the same for me...but said the 65mm would be fine...as I figured...if it wasn't I would go for "all big" and get a 105mm TB...surely that wouldn't hurt would it...

Yeah and you said that you didn't notice any noticeable gain right when you added your 75mm TB in that 10mpg thread...I would think you would notice a "almost 1mph gain" right?

Its just simple to note that a 75mm TB is not needed though the opening is a 75mm...the actual opening of the intake doesn't really mean much when you also have to factor in the runners and the cfm the upper and lower flow...don't ever match a TB to an intake just because of the opening size...

The 4hp gain isn't really a good result or noteworthy because that could have been anywhere in the powerband to get that peak gain (or as I call it: Ricer gain )...because factors like the engine temp/outside temp/humidity/air flow all could have differing results on the dyno...

Grn92LX · Dec 6, 2004

I'll be honest with you. A 25hp gain was hard to feel. Thats what I gained a while back once I fixed my issues when I had the full TFS combo. Went from 275hp to 304hp. I sure as hell saw it at the track though where it counts I was happy as hell that day. My butt-o-meter is broken, so no I didnt feel any diffderence with the 75mm tb (I also added a new maf at the same time) That thread reminds me, I havent put gas in my car in about a month lol. When it comes to TB's and manifold inlets, lets just say "too each their own". I am a fan of the 75mm TB if the manifold is open for it. It doesnt hurt low end tq, I would know, I own one.

nmcgrawj · Dec 6, 2004

5spd GT said:
Despite the velocity bias...you do need some sort of velocity (hence why Ed recommended me a Performer intake) to help with low end grunt to get my car up and moving...

You two are just a bunch of Jay Allen buds...I'm not worried about your "philosophy" ...Talk to Michael Yount about the need for a 75mm TB on a car that is daily driven...

You only truly benefit from them on a stroked or blown combo...

A 65mm or 70mm provide plenty of flow for all around driveability...

Since when did TB's make or break your idea of "velocity"? If you did use a 65mm tb isn't the air just going to slow down once it hits the 75mm opening of the intake? A bunch of Jay Allen buds? Wow...i sense a little animosity do i not? Ed Curtis said to get a 75mm for a reason. Will a 70mm work? Sure. But is there more to be gained? Yea. Is it a big gain? Not necessarily, but i want as much gain as there is possible.

My problem is with how you word stuff. "That 75mm will be too big". You are telling him that it will hurt him which is false. Too big will be a 105mm TB because what intake has a opening that big for a n/a h/c/i 302? None because like you said it wont move any air.

Thats pretty funny if you think a 65mm TB motor have better driveability than the same motor with a 75mm TB. And i guess its key to have such HIGH VELOCITY of the air right? What components give the air its velocity? Its a package controlled by the cam. The cam makes and breaks air velocity when talking about parts that are comparable in size. Obviously there is no velocity with HUGE parts like victor juniors or TFS-R's on a street 302. You know what..its useless you are not going to listen anyway.

5spd GT · Dec 6, 2004

Grn92LX said:
I'll be honest with you. A 25hp gain was hard to feel. Thats what I gained a while back once I fixed my issues when I had the full TFS combo. Went from 275hp to 304hp. I sure as hell saw it at the track though where it counts I was happy as hell that day. My butt-o-meter is broken, so no I didnt feel any diffderence with the 75mm tb (I also added a new maf at the same time) That thread reminds me, I havent put gas in my car in about a month lol. When it comes to TB's and manifold inlets, lets just say "too each their own". I am a fan of the 75mm TB if the manifold is open for it. It doesnt hurt low end tq, I would know, I own one.

Well if your "butt-o-meter" is broken...then how would you know if you lost low end torque or not...

Yeah I know you added the MAF and the TB...and you still didn't feel a difference

Okay I got to say it: Maybe "bigger isn't better"?

If someone wants to put a 75mm TB (cough cough not neccesary cough cough)...on their car...go for it...it isn't my money or car...

It is just a simple fact to nmcgrawj that you do not need to pick a TB based on the intake opening...many other factors...you have to read more into it...

nmcgrawj · Dec 6, 2004

5spd GT said:
He did the same for me...but said the 65mm would be fine...as I figured...if it wasn't I would go for "all big" and get a 105mm TB...surely that wouldn't hurt would it...

Yeah and you said that you didn't notice any noticeable gain right when you added your 75mm TB in that 10mpg thread...I would think you would notice a "almost 1mph gain" right?

Its just simple to note that a 75mm TB is not needed though the opening is a 75mm...the actual opening of the intake doesn't really mean much when you also have to factor in the runners and the cfm the upper and lower flow...don't ever match a TB to an intake just because of the opening size...

The 4hp gain isn't really a good result or noteworthy because that could have been anywhere in the powerband to get that peak gain (or as I call it: Ricer gain )...because factors like the engine temp/outside temp/humidity/air flow all could have differing results on the dyno...

Go post on hardcore50.com and see what they say....i doubt they will say a 75mm is too big. Its a shame that some of us have to be so stuck in our ways that we lead people to the wrong information.

5spd GT · Dec 6, 2004

nmcgrawj said:
Since when did TB's make or break your idea of "velocity"? If you did use a 65mm tb isn't the air just going to slow down once it hits the 75mm opening of the intake? A bunch of Jay Allen buds? Wow...i sense a little animosity do i not? Ed Curtis said to get a 75mm for a reason. Will a 70mm work? Sure. But is there more to be gained? Yea. Is it a big gain? Not necessarily, but i want as much gain as there is possible.

My problem is with how you word stuff. "That 75mm will be too big". You are telling him that it will hurt him which is false. Too big will be a 105mm TB because what intake has a opening that big for a n/a h/c/i 302? None because like you said it wont move any air.

Thats pretty funny if you think a 65mm TB motor have better driveability than the same motor with a 75mm TB. And i guess its key to have such HIGH VELOCITY of the air right? What components give the air its velocity? Its a package controlled by the cam. The cam makes and breaks air velocity when talking about parts that are comparable in size. Obviously there is no velocity with HUGE parts like victor juniors or TFS-R's on a street 302. You know what..its useless you are not going to listen anyway.

I'll give you slack this time since you a newbie with knowledge...you do not have any personal experience...instead going off another person...

Then maybe I'll "listen" to you...

Nothing wrong with newbies...but when they start spouting off ideas that they have no clue on why their ideas work...I tend to tune off...kind of like Raph130

5spd GT · Dec 6, 2004

nmcgrawj said:
Go post on hardcore50.com and see what they say....i doubt they will say a 75mm is too big. Its a shame that some of us have to be so stuck in our ways that we lead people to the wrong information.

I put "two big for the application"...start reading the post...the 75mm TB is not needed...

I'm stuck in my ways? Maybe...but you have nothing to stick (wink wink experience wink wink)...

Newbie

Again talk to Michael Yount about if a 75mm TB is needed...I think he knows a thing or two...just maybe

nmcgrawj · Dec 6, 2004

5spd GT said:
I put "two big for the application"...start reading the post...the 75mm TB is not needed...

I'm stuck in my ways? Maybe...but you have nothing to stick (wink wink experience wink wink)...

Newbie

Again talk to Michael Yount about if a 75mm TB is needed...I think he knows a thing or two...just maybe

Yea call me a newbie, that I am. But the mistake is when newbies listen to these internet rumors. If he is going to buy a TB, why not get something he wont have to replace? Too many of us "newbs" are poorly directed by guys on the internet. Some people know their stuff and others dont. You are such a pro right? But you are telling me to go talk to Michael Yount. Thats great. How about you go talk to Jay Allen? Or Ed Curtis since he also thinks a 75mm is just fine for a n/a 302.

You are right, i dont know all the ideas down to a science. I just started in this world of modding and i am trying to learn before i make mistakes. Show me proof or personal experience that you have that says a 75mm is too big. Show me where you took it off and it fixed a driveability problem. Then tell me everyone who IS RUNNING a 75mm that they are in a dream world and their cars actually would do better with a 65mm. :LOL:

Until you step up with some real facts and situations that said this to be true, it makes no since for you to say it. Thats how rumors keep going on the internet cause people read them...assume you know your stuff and make bad decisions.

The best engine will perform and DRIVE the best when designed with ALL the pieces in mind...Jay Allen is designing my cam so i think he knows what i will need....oh wait maybe i should tell Jay to come talk to you or Michael(no flame to Mr. Yount) so he can design it the best way possible.

Honestly, i would love for you to break down why you need a 65mm tb to keep the velocity up and where all this velocity is started from. Im young, im learning and for that fact im all ears. I listen to Professionals so i will listen to Michael Yount if i talked to him and im sure he would defend his thoughts quite well, but you on the other hand have not.

So go ahead...im listening.....teach us why since u have so much experience.

If you arent going to explain it yourself, then lets end this garbage of going back and forth....freakin internet wars with no proof. No true personal facts or situations mean you have no proof, just theory. All im saying is that 75mm is not too big and they work just fine and dont hurt you. They give you every bit of room for gain.

5spd GT · Dec 6, 2004

nmcgrawj said:
Yea call me a newbie, that I am. But the mistake is when newbies listen to these internet rumors. If he is going to buy a TB, why not get something he wont have to replace? Too many of us "newbs" are poorly directed by guys on the internet. Some people know their stuff and others dont. You are such a pro right? But you are telling me to go talk to Michael Yount. Thats great. How about you go talk to Jay Allen? Or Ed Curtis since he also thinks a 75mm is just fine for a n/a 302.

You are right, i dont know all the ideas down to a science. I just started in this world of modding and i am trying to learn before i make mistakes. Show me proof or personal experience that you have that says a 75mm is too big. Show me where you took it off and it fixed a driveability problem. Then tell me everyone who IS RUNNING a 75mm that they are in a dream world and their cars actually would do better with a 65mm. :LOL:

Until you step up with some real facts and situations that said this to be true, it makes no since for you to say it. Thats how rumors keep going on the internet cause people read them...assume you know your stuff and make bad decisions.

The best engine will perform and DRIVE the best when designed with ALL the pieces in mind...Jay Allen is designing my cam so i think he knows what i will need....oh wait maybe i should tell Jay to come talk to you or Michael(no flame to Mr. Yount) so he can design it the best way possible.

Honestly, i would love for you to break down why you need a 65mm tb to keep the velocity up and where all this velocity is started from. Im young, im learning and for that fact im all ears. I listen to Professionals so i will listen to Michael Yount if i talked to him and im sure he would defend his thoughts quite well, but you on the other hand have not.

So go ahead...im listening.....teach us why since u have so much experience.

If you arent going to explain it yourself, then lets end this garbage of going back and forth....freakin internet wars with no proof. No true personal facts or situations mean you have no proof, just theory. All im saying is that 75mm is not too big and they work just fine and dont hurt you. They give you every bit of room for gain.

You have alot to learn...

"Internet rumors" huh? If recall Mike came up with that whole slated idea about the "to big TB"...and your trying to reiterate what he has always said...

A good reason why the intakes have a "big" opening is because to save any possible porting job later...instead you can use the TB (for example) to base the velocity on...

You know all the questions you asked me?...I'm going to ask you back...if you want to see my reasons for this...do a search for my name and type 75mm TB or something in as the keyword and you will see...I'm tired of explaining myself to followers like yourself...

You defending the 75mm TB is just like me defending the 65mm or 70mm TB....but I am wrong correct?

One other little thing as to not waste my time...but you seem to have gotten the original threads point (the 75mm is to big for his application - as I put) and the possibility of a 75mm TB for a more aggresive setup...

I find it comical about the "internet rumor" theory of yours...you "miswell" copy and paste Mike's post because your saying the same thing (hmm...wonder how?)...Mike has more experience in this field than you and many others...quit chatting about something you have no idea about or PERSONAL EXPERIENCE...I have no problem conversing with Mike over the advantages/disadvantages of to big of TB...because I know he has been there and has PE...

I bet you and Snoozer are good buddies huh? Surprisingly similar explanations that don't ever make sense or are backed up...

My Regards

nmcgrawj · Dec 6, 2004

5spd GT said:
You have alot to learn...

"Internet rumors" huh? If recall Mike came up with that whole slated idea about the "to big TB"...and your trying to reiterate what he has always said...

A good reason why the intakes have a "big" opening is because to save any possible porting job later...instead you can use the TB (for example) to base the velocity on...

You know all the questions you asked me?...I'm going to ask you back...if you want to see my reasons for this...do a search for my name and type 75mm TB or something in as the keyword and you will see...I'm tired of explaining myself to followers like yourself...

You defending the 75mm TB is just like me defending the 65mm or 70mm TB....but I am wrong correct?

One other little thing as to not waste my time...but you seem to have gotten the original threads point (the 75mm is to big for his application - as I put) and the possibility of a 75mm TB for a more aggresive setup...

My Regards

Followers? LOL So i guess you are a Michael Yount follower then right? And i suppose the million AFR/FTI/Eddy guys are followers? Give me a break.

I never said that a 65mm or 70mm will NOT work. I just said that the 75mm WONT hurt you. If my thoughts or statements got confused then forgive me but a 65mm or 70mm will work...but will u lose with a 75mm? Will you gain with a 75mm? Im sure u will if your combo is designed for it.

Like i said, there are more than one way to go fast. If you designed your combo around smaller parts then great job....more power to you. I wish u the best of luck. But a 75mm is not too big for a n/a 302 combo. Thats all im saying.

urban96 · Dec 6, 2004

slow5.0 (ernan) is in the 12's with the stock TB and he has a vert!!

Ordered Intake what else?

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