Ordered Intake what else?

[5spd GT]

Followers? LOL So i guess you are a Michael Yount follower then right? And i suppose the million AFR/FTI/Eddy guys are followers? Give me a break.

I never said that a 65mm or 70mm will NOT work. I just said that the 75mm WONT hurt you. If my thoughts or statements got confused then forgive me but a 65mm or 70mm will work...but will u lose with a 75mm? Will you gain with a 75mm? Im sure u will if your combo is designed for it.

Like i said, there are more than one way to go fast. If you designed your combo around smaller parts then great job....more power to you. I wish u the best of luck. But a 75mm is not too big for a n/a 302 combo. Thats all im saying.

Nope...I'm a Michael Yount listener and learner...and I was referring to you following Mike (92GrnLX)...There are millions of AFR/FTI/Eddy guys?

Yep but AGAIN for his application the 75mm is to big...he would receive better overall gains with a smaller TB...and on the 75mm TB...it is not needed for a h/c/i 302...a better basis is for a stroked or blown car where they both in their own ways make that "velocity"...

A 4hp gain is not enough to spend money on one...and what about the torque numbers? You kind of need those...

"Thats all I'm saying"...

 

[5spd GT]

slow5.0 (ernan) is in the 12's with the stock TB and he has a vert!!

Good Point...and that is with the "heavy" Sn95...

 

[jpctln]

Hahaha I am JUST about to order a TFS intake kit with a 75mm tb. Should I go with a 70mm instead???? I'm going to need some more convincing guys! :wink:

 

[nmcgrawj]

Nope...I'm a Michael Yount listener and learner...and I was referring to you following Mike (92GrnLX)...There are millions of AFR/FTI/Eddy guys?

Yep but AGAIN for his application the 75mm is to big...he would receive better overall gains with a smaller TB...and on the 75mm TB...it is not needed for a h/c/i 302...a better basis is for a stroked or blown car where they both in their own ways make that "velocity"...

A 4hp gain is not enough to spend money on one...and what about the torque numbers? You kind of need those...

"Thats all I'm saying"...

Yea ok...Im following Mike when he has a a FTI cam...RIGHT. So you listen to Michael Yount...i listen to Jay Allen. Big deal. Get over it. Its not his way or the high way. The TB is NOT going to make or break the velocity of the air. The intake runners, heads, HEADERS, and most importantly the cam will to name a few parts. The 65 or 70 will work....but the 75 does TOO. It does not hurt you. Without H/C/I? I dont know, i do know that stock, NO TB is going to net you much of any gain.

And when i said millions of guys run the FTI/AFR/Eddy combo, i guess i was partial to the 94-95 guys cause A LOT of them do run that combo.

Like i said, there is more than one way to go fast......i guess a Holley intake is too big for a 302 too huh? Open your eyes. There are plenty of people using 302's with bigger parts...depends on whos designing the motor.

 

[nmcgrawj]

slow5.0 (ernan) is in the 12's with the stock TB and he has a vert!!

I was just saying that a 75mm will NOT hurt Ernan. Can u go fast with the stock TB? Sure. Is there more power else where? I think so. Will the 75mm slow him down? I think not.

 

[nmcgrawj]

GTJake from the 94-95 section....... 325rwhp/341rwtq 12.72@110mph. Guess he should take off that 75mm and put on a 70mm or 65mm if he wants to go faster huh?

 

[5spd GT]

GTJake from the 94-95 section....... 325rwhp/341rwtq 12.72@110mph. Guess he should take off that 75mm and put on a 70mm or 65mm if he wants to go faster huh?

Come on now...there is a bit more to his car than just a 75mm TB...how bout some intake porting by Tmoss...and custom cam...tune...etc...

You think I don't know some of these Sn95 guys... ...I'm familiar with them all...

Did I EVER say that a 75mm would slow you down?

Again if you read the original post the 75mm TB is to big for his application...

 

[5spd GT]

Yea ok...Im following Mike when he has a a FTI cam...RIGHT. So you listen to Michael Yount...i listen to Jay Allen. Big deal. Get over it. Its not his way or the high way. The TB is NOT going to make or break the velocity of the air. The intake runners, heads, HEADERS, and most importantly the cam will to name a few parts. The 65 or 70 will work....but the 75 does TOO. It does not hurt you. Without H/C/I? I dont know, i do know that stock, NO TB is going to net you much of any gain.

And when i said millions of guys run the FTI/AFR/Eddy combo, i guess i was partial to the 94-95 guys cause A LOT of them do run that combo.

Like i said, there is more than one way to go fast......i guess a Holley intake is too big for a 302 too huh? Open your eyes. There are plenty of people using 302's with bigger parts...depends on whos designing the motor.

Do you think I didn't see some of your beginning post...you didn't even know who Jay Allen was until Mike told you about him...you emailed Jay Allen and liked his more detailed answers...

Mike is going with a Jay Allen cam...I know you have been following that...so that is why I referred to Jay...

You put "Without H/C/I? I don't know"...well then why are you posting your "info"?

There isn't any bolt-on that will net you any sort of "real" gain...

Yes a Holley Systemax is a out of the rpm range of the other supporting parts on a stock 5L...in fact I remember a particular thread about a year ago on this over in the 94-95 section and how they all jumped on the guy saying how the Systemax will hurt the car and possibly slow him down (especially with the auto)...

Your confusing with your post...I'm not for sure what you are trying to prove...talking about the Systemax is to big on a stock motor (in a sarcastic tone) and then talking about how the motor is defined...well how does this sound as defined: STOCK...not to many variances there is there?

There is NO need with that original application to get a 75mm TB...a 65mm or 70mm will flow plenty for many mods to come...

 

[nmcgrawj]

Come on now...there is a bit more to his car than just a 75mm TB...how bout some intake porting by Tmoss...and custom cam...tune...etc...

You think I don't know some of these Sn95 guys... ...I'm familiar with them all...

Did I EVER say that a 75mm would slow you down?

Again if you read the original post the 75mm TB is to big for his application...

Who cares what else he has done....is it STROKED? is it BLOWN? No. You said that a 75mm TB is for blown or stroked 302s....not N/A 302s. No one said u were not familiar with them. You never said a 75mm would slow you down....but u did say it was too big unless the motor is stroked or blown

a 75mm is only truly beneficial with a stroker or blown combo

I would say its benefiting GTJake....its especially not hurting him.

Just so we can end this, i started aruing that the 75mm was good for h/c/i 302s. This was the wrong place since he is not a h/c/i 302. A 75mm would do him no good, how much it will hurt? I dont know. I wouldnt even tell him to get a TB right now....because like you said, in a stock application with stock heads and cam, the stock TB can flow more than enough.

Now you want to act like a ported lower, custom cam, and a tune make it ok to have a 75mm. So what about guys running Holley Intakes? TFS Track heats? Eddy RPM II's? With custom cams and tunes. If you design the package as far as the cam, tune, and the parts that make the rest of the engine up, then a 75mm will only help you...it will not hurt you.

Stick to your 65 and 70mm TB's....maybe one day u can port your lower, get a custom cam, and a tune inorder for the 75mm to help you. Oh wait, dont u already have a custom cam?

 

[nmcgrawj]

Do you think I didn't see some of your beginning post...you didn't even know who Jay Allen was until Mike told you about him...you emailed Jay Allen and liked his more detailed answers...

Mike is going with a Jay Allen cam...I know you have been following that...so that is why I referred to Jay...

Just like there was a time when people didn't know about Ed. Curtis. You can see all the posts you want. Mike referred me because he saw what parts i had and what i was trying to do. So when someone refers you to someone....that makes you a follower?

I went with Jay be cause FIRST of all, he is local to me. Any problems? Jay comes to where im at or where my car is at. No phone calls. No shipping. No problems. Yes, i did like that Jay explained things....im trying to learn so i appreciate every piece of information. I didn't just take his parts as working fine...i questioned them, said why is that...why is this. And he explained it. You do great research...but u come off as a guy who thinks he knows everything.

If you think i went with Jay just because Mike did...thats pretty sad. I thank Mike for referring me to him but after that....it didn't matter.

We are arguing over nothing. You go fast your way and i will go mine. Oh yea....keep doing all the research you want on this forum....but let me remind you, there is a world outside of it that you know nothing about. Not all my decisions are based off of things you read here.

 

[5spd GT]

Who cares what else he has done....is it STROKED? is it BLOWN? No. You said that a 75mm TB is for blown or stroked 302s....not N/A 302s. No one said u were not familiar with them. You never said a 75mm would slow you down....but u did say it was too big unless the motor is stroked or blown

I would say its benefiting GTJake....its especially not hurting him.

Just so we can end this, i started aruing that the 75mm was good for h/c/i 302s. This was the wrong place since he is not a h/c/i 302. A 75mm would do him no good, how much it will hurt? I dont know. I wouldnt even tell him to get a TB right now....because like you said, in a stock application with stock heads and cam, the stock TB can flow more than enough.

Now you want to act like a ported lower, custom cam, and a tune make it ok to have a 75mm. So what about guys running Holley Intakes? TFS Track heats? Eddy RPM II's? With custom cams and tunes. If you design the package as far as the cam, tune, and the parts that make the rest of the engine up, then a 75mm will only help you...it will not hurt you.

Stick to your 65 and 70mm TB's....maybe one day u can port your lower, get a custom cam, and a tune inorder for the 75mm to help you. Oh wait, dont u already have a custom cam?

No I did not say the 75mm was to big unless it was stroked or blown...you even contradicted yourself with "my" quote...I put it wouldn't be truly beneficial...there is a difference...

I DID NOT refer to him having the 75mm TB because of the cam/tune/ported intake/etc...I was TELLING you that is how he got his numbers...not the throttle body matching

Yes I do have a custom cam...so what is your point...since you couldn't understand what I was pointing out...

 

[5spd GT]

Just like there was a time when people didn't know about Ed. Curtis. You can see all the posts you want. Mike referred me because he saw what parts i had and what i was trying to do. So when someone refers you to someone....that makes you a follower?

I went with Jay be cause FIRST of all, he is local to me. Any problems? Jay comes to where im at or where my car is at. No phone calls. No shipping. No problems. Yes, i did like that Jay explained things....im trying to learn so i appreciate every piece of information. I didn't just take his parts as working fine...i questioned them, said why is that...why is this. And he explained it. You do great research...but u come off as a guy who thinks he knows everything.

If you think i went with Jay just because Mike did...thats pretty sad. I thank Mike for referring me to him but after that....it didn't matter.

We are arguing over nothing. You go fast your way and i will go mine. Oh yea....keep doing all the research you want on this forum....but let me remind you, there is a world outside of it that you know nothing about. Not all my decisions are based off of things you read here.

AGAIN...NO...I was saying you were a follower (if you would comprehend the post) because you "sounded" just like Mike on his past post about this subject...get some real experience...not hear-say...

Just to set my "know-it-all" title to rest...I'll admit right now...I DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING...any questions?

You think this forum right here (stangnet) is my only source?...Nope...I'm a member on SEVERAL other forums (local and global-as this one is)...I go to the drag strip SEVERAL times a year and have SEVERAL mustang buddies that experiment with ideas...lots of swapping...and lots of fun...

 

[nmcgrawj]

Truly beneficial? Either it helps or it doesn't.

The only reason i brought up GTJake is because he has those power with the 75mm TB which you said he doesnt need. I would like to see him dyno it with a 65mm and see what happends.

I will say it again, when you design the package, a 75mm will be beneficial. Since u said "truly beneficial", you agree that n/a 302s can run 75mm TB's and not lose right? Is there a certain amount of power you gotta gain for it to be "truly beneficial" to you?

 

[5spd GT]

Truly beneficial? Either it helps or it doesn't.

The only reason i brought up GTJake is because he has those power with the 75mm TB which you said he doesnt need. I would like to see him dyno it with a 65mm and see what happends.

I will say it again, when you design the package, a 75mm will be beneficial. Since u said "truly beneficial", you agree that n/a 302s can run 75mm TB's and not lose right? Is there a certain amount of power you gotta gain for it to be "truly beneficial" to you?

I define truly beneficial as being able to maintain the previous torque or better and still gain HP to help the upper rpm...while maintaining the throttle response...overall better driveability with performance and the velocity (torque) for the average drivers low-rpm cruising...in affect losing "dead spots" in the powerband...

The 4HP gain is negligible when there are other factors to consider...and why wasn't the torque mentioned in those gains? Was every other parameter the same on the dyno runs (engine temp/air temp/tune/etc...)?

Your correct he doesn't "NEED" the 75mm...if it ain't broke, don't fix it...he would be fine with a 65mm or 70mm...no need to buy a TB based on intake opening size...a very minor detail inside the whole spectrum...

 

[nmcgrawj]

AGAIN...NO...I was saying you were a follower (if you would comprehend the post) because you "sounded" just like Mike on his past post about this subject...get some real experience...not hear-say...

Just to set my "know-it-all" title to rest...I'll admit right now...I DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING...any questions?

You think this forum right here (stangnet) is my only source?...Nope...I'm a member on SEVERAL other forums (local and global-as this one is)...I go to the drag strip SEVERAL times a year and have SEVERAL mustang buddies that experiment with ideas...lots of swapping...and lots of fun...

Well for one, Mike is doing the 75mm and has not lost with it. I am 19...this is my first stang...im learning everything as i go as i save my pennies. I dont have any experience yet. Thats why im talking to professionals like Jay Allen to understand all these concepts. I think Jay Allen has plenty of experience...should i not listen to him? There is more than one way to go fast...Jay has his....Ed has his.....Michael has his...pick one and do it.


Its getting late....this is probably one of the stupidest arguements. You obviously think that it is beneficial for n/a 302's...just not truly beneficial in some setups. I also think that you have to set the combination up to take advantage of it...its not going to help much if any at all on a stock motor. I dont know what happened with the holley intake, a holley intake will KILL a stock motor with stock heads and cam. It will be useless. Now get some nice flowing heads on there with a matching custom cam...and u got a different story.

There has been a lot of confusion. A lot of misunderstanding. Lets just throw the towels in man, its a waste of bandwith. You do what you do and i will keep trying to learn what i can from professionals and people who know things from experience. Hopefully next spring i can get out here with the rest of you and get some experience.

 

[5spd GT]

To stay on topic for future reference with your intake I copied this from one of my previous posts a while back...Just some tips and ideas to keep in mind...

To release the fuel pressure...you can either let the car sit for a while and the pressure will eventually go down (mine does it overnight)...or you can take the cap off the schrader valve (behind alternator) and use a flathead screwdriver or something and open the valve like a bike/car tire...but use a towel or something so you don't get fuel everywhere...

You might aught to get some new O-rings at your local parts store for your injectors...and mark all the vacuum hoses with tape...

Here is what I did on my intake install: I put a couple dabs under the FEL-1250 gasket and positioned the gasket over the ports as perfect as possible and then allow those dabs under the gasket to dry...so it will not move as I lower the intake on...You can also screw some "headless" studs into the heads to help you properly align the lower intake as you lower it down...and then just unscrew them when the intake is down...

I put a nice thick bead of high temp silicone on the block ends and let it sit for about 10 minutes to "film" over and then set the lower intake on...you can use long studs installed into your heads to help you lower the intake down and then remove the studs after it is seated...

I slightly torqued the intake down after the "filming" and laying it down just to get a little "squish" on the silicone and let it sit overnight...

The next day I did the final torqueing procedure with the torque numbers (somepeople go by feel) and that was that...absolutely no leaks of any kind...

On mine I had to trim a little bit of the coolant passages on the gasket because it was protruding into the passageway...

Oh and clean the gasket/head/intake "mating" area real good and clean...

You will need the a/c-fuel line disconnect tools...they are about $10 bucks for the set and they come in handy for the fuel rail, fuel lines, a/c lines that have those special fittings...

I didn't replace my fuel rails but I just swung the fuel rail out of the way while I did the install...you had to loosen a head bolt though on mine...because a "brace" that holds the fuel rail down so to say...

Good Luck w/ it

 

[nmcgrawj]

Your correct he doesn't "NEED" the 75mm...if it ain't broke, don't fix it...he would be fine with a 65mm or 70mm...no need to buy a TB based on intake opening size...a very minor detail inside the whole spectrum...

Which is what i have been saying: a 65 or 70mm will work but is more power/torque left on the table? Some setups yes...others no. Depends on how u set it up. From the engine all the way back to the gears. You know all of this so there is no point in saying it.

I just got the feeling from you that a 75mm will hurt a h/c/i 302 by it being "too big" and thats why i said it wouldnt. It will hurt a package or combo that is not set up for it. I see what you are saying so its no point in keeping this thread alive. Plan and put parts together that match and get the job done....thats what makes a succesful combo whether it be with a 65,70, or 75mm TB because they all are up for the job.

 

[5spd GT]

Well for one, Mike is doing the 75mm and has not lost with it. I am 19...this is my first stang...im learning everything as i go as i save my pennies. I dont have any experience yet. Thats why im talking to professionals like Jay Allen to understand all these concepts. I think Jay Allen has plenty of experience...should i not listen to him? There is more than one way to go fast...Jay has his....Ed has his.....Michael has his...pick one and do it.


Its getting late....this is probably one of the stupidest arguements. You obviously think that it is beneficial for n/a 302's...just not truly beneficial in some setups. I also think that you have to set the combination up to take advantage of it...its not going to help much if any at all on a stock motor. I dont know what happened with the holley intake, a holley intake will KILL a stock motor with stock heads and cam. It will be useless. Now get some nice flowing heads on there with a matching custom cam...and u got a different story.

There has been a lot of confusion. A lot of misunderstanding. Lets just throw the towels in man, its a waste of bandwith. You do what you do and i will keep trying to learn what i can from professionals and people who know things from experience. Hopefully next spring i can get out here with the rest of you and get some experience.

Mike has not dynoed since his 80mm Maf and 75mm TB...and he said he noticed no gains...by the SOTP...inaccurate in both directions...so one can take it as he wants...

Oh and I didn't mean to sound like Michael had a "way to make someone fast"...but just that he knows the engine dynamics and seems to express it in a very intelligent way...he isn't in the "grinding" business as Jay, Buddy, Ed are...

The controversial posts of mine aren't usually looked at for just pure power...I look at the overall appeal of a modification...I do this all the time with 373's vs. 456's...I try to analyze in my own mind the positives and negatives of a steeper gear...not just the gains I'll see at the track...

 

[nmcgrawj]

Mike has not dynoed since his 80mm Maf and 75mm TB...and he said he noticed no gains...by the SOTP...inaccurate in both directions...so one can take it as he wants...

Oh and I didn't mean to sound like Michael had a "way to make someone fast"...but just that he knows the engine dynamics and seems to express it in a very intelligent way...he isn't in the "grinding" business as Jay, Buddy, Ed are...

The controversial posts of mine aren't usually looked at for just pure power...I look at the overall appeal of a modification...I do this all the time with 373's vs. 456's...I try to analyze in my own mind the positives and negatives of a steeper gear...not just the gains I'll see at the track...

Alright man, i do agree with you about Mike and his gains. Like i said, just as long as its not a total loss, then i see no reason not to get a 75mm TB especially when they cost the same. You can only give yourself room to grow. I think Mike's current combo could use a higher flowing intake...but thats a different topic that doesn't matter because of him going with a 347.

Its all good. We both want to go fast. We will do it different ways because we want the cars to have different behaviors. Everyday driving is more important to me than track duty...if anything i just want a street beast.

 

[Rock777]

On topic....The reason I suggested getting new studs for the new intake is because my old ones were so oxidated and were stuck horribly along with the tb and intake. To each his own, but for me it was nothing to get a few studs and bypass trying to remove old, crusty ones and ruin the threads while doing so.