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Engine Passing Smog Test - Can't Hold Steady Speed

  • Thread starter Thread starter Walternator
  • Start date Start date Oct 31, 2016
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    smog steady surge
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Walternator

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Nov 26, 2016
#21
  • Nov 26, 2016
  • #21
For anyone who is interested, I took the advice of several of you and reset the idle speed, following the instructions of jrichker. I found that the idle was too low to keep the engine running with the Throttle Bypass Air Valve disconnected, so I opened it up until it held 600 rpm. This solved the problem of holding a steady speed through the test. Many thanks to all of you for the help! Unfortunately, now it failed on high NOx <sigh>.
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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#22
  • Nov 26, 2016
  • #22
Run the codes again, maybe a sensor went wonky, I don't have to deal with inspections, yet.
 
W

Walternator

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#23
  • Nov 26, 2016
  • #23
karthief said:
Run the codes again, maybe a sensor went wonky, I don't have to deal with inspections, yet.
Click to expand...
I ran them this morning. Still 11/11.
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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#24
  • Nov 26, 2016
  • #24
I tried to do a search on no2 as it relates to auto exhaust and came up with a bunch of gobby gook that din't explain nuth'n.
Maybe @jrichker or one of the other guru's can help out here.
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
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#25
  • Nov 26, 2016
  • #25
Walternator said:
I ran them this morning. Still 11/11.
Click to expand...


Should actually get 11/11/11.

Engine off and continuous memory get you 11/11 with the car off.

Then when you start the engine, you should get a third 11.

So did you get three 11s?





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W

Walternator

Member
Apr 4, 2002
37
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Nov 26, 2016
#26
  • Nov 26, 2016
  • #26
Mustang5L5 said:
Should actually get 11/11/11.

Engine off and continuous memory get you 11/11 with the car off.

Then when you start the engine, you should get a third 11.

So did you get three 11s?





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Click to expand...
Are you saying that I should run the Key On Engine Off test, then start it and look for another code? Or are you referring to the Key On Engine Running test?
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
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Nov 27, 2016
#27
  • Nov 27, 2016
  • #27
Walternator said:
Are you saying that I should run the Key On Engine Off test, then start it and look for another code? Or are you referring to the Key On Engine Running test?
Click to expand...


Key on engine off test usually spits out two sets of numbers. One is sensor status at the moment, and the other is codes stored long term called "continuous memory". That's where you get two code "11s" before you even start the engine.

Once you start it, you can get a third code 11.

A lot of times guys confuse it with modern obd2 setups where you can just dump the codes and get them all at once. Obd1 just needs then pulled both engine on and off. Most don't realize that so just wanted to make sure you were aware


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jrichker

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#28
  • Nov 27, 2016
  • #28
Walternator said:
I ran them this morning. Still 11/11.
Click to expand...
How to pass emissions testing:

High NO - high combustion temps - retard timing, check EGR for operation. If the EGR has been disabled or the ports blocked in the intake manifold you will get high NO. The EGR lowers combustion temps and high combustion temps are the main cause of high NO readings.
High CO – Rich condition - fuel pressure too high, check O2 sensors, replace air filter, Clean MAF element.
High HC – Lean misfire, vacuum leak, common misfire due to worn or weak ignition system components. On rare occasions, an overly rich mixture may be the cause. Do the ethanol/E10 fill up as suggested.
High CO & HC - Cat converters, smog pump, and smog pump controls. Make sure the smog pump has good air output at 1200-1700 RPM

How to pass emissions testing:

1.) Make sure all the emissions gear the car was made with is present and connected up properly. That includes a working smog pump and cats. The smog tech will do a visual check to make sure that all the original equipment is present and connected up.

2.) Make sure that you have fresh tune up with spark plugs, plug wires, cap, rotor, fuel & air filters. An oil & filter change is a good idea while you are at it.



Some basic theory to clarify how things work is in order…

EGR System theory and testing

Revised 29-Sep-2013 to add code definitions for EGR sensor and EVR regulator.

The EGR shuts off at Wide Open Throttle (WOT), so it has minimal effect on performance. The addition of exhaust gas drops combustion temperature, increases gas mileage and reduces the tendency of the engine to ping. It can also reduce HC emissions by reducing fuel consumption. The primary result of EGR usage is a reduction in NOx emissions. It does this by reducing the amount of air/fuel mixture that gets burned in the combustion process. Less air from the intake system means less air to mx with the fuel, so the computer leans out the fuel delivery calculations to balance things out. This reduces combustion temperature, and the creation of NOx gases. The reduced combustion temp reduces the tendency to ping.

The computer shuts down the EGR system when it detects WOT (Wide Open Throttle), so the effect on full throttle performance is too small to have any measurable negative effects.

The EGR system has a vacuum source (line from the intake manifold) that goes to the EVR, computer operated electronic vacuum regulator. The EVR is located on the back of the passenger side shock strut tower. The computer uses RPM, Load. and some other factors to tell the EVR to pass vacuum to open the EGR valve. The EGR valve and the passages in the heads and intake manifold route exhaust gas to the EGR spacer (throttle body spacer). The EGR sensor tells the computer how far the EGR valve is open. Then computer adjusts the signal sent to the EVR to hold, increase or decrease the vacuum. The computer adds spark advance to compensate for the recirculated gases and the slower rate they burn at.

The resistor packs used to fool the computer into turning off the CEL (Check Engine Light) off are a bad idea. All they really do is mess up the data the computer uses to calculate the correct air/fuel mixture. You can easily create problems that are difficult to pin down and fix.



Troubleshooting:
There should be no vacuum at the EGR valve when at idle. If there is, the EVR (electronic vacuum regulator) mounted on the backside of the passenger side wheelwell is suspect. Check the vacuum line plumbing to make sure the previous owner didn’t cross the vacuum lines.

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds. (the diagram says 88 GT, but the EGR part is the same for 86-93 Mustangs)


The EGR sensor is basically a variable resistor, like the volume control on a radio. One end is 5 volt VREF power from the computer (red/orange wire). One end is computer signal ground (black/white), and the middle wire (brown/lt green) is the signal output from the EGR sensor. It is designed to always have some small voltage output from it anytime the ignition switch is the Run position. That way the computer knows the sensor & the wiring is OK. No voltage on computer pin 27 (brown/lt green wire) and the computer thinks the sensor is bad or the wire is broken and sets code 31. The voltage output can range from approximately .6-.85 volt. A defective or missing sensor will set codes 31 (EVP circuit below minimum voltage) or 32 ( EGR voltage below closed limit).

The EVR regulates vacuum to the EGR valve to maintain the correct amount of vacuum. The solenoid coil should measure 20-70 Ohms resistance. The regulator has a vacuum feed on the bottom which draws from the intake manifold. The other vacuum line is regulated vacuum going to the EGR valve. One side of the EVR electrical circuit is +12 volts anytime the ignition switch is in the run position. The other side of the electrical circuit is the ground path and is controlled by the computer. The computer switches the ground on and off to control the regulator solenoid. A defective EVR will set codes 33 (insufficient flow detected), 84 (EGR Vacuum Regulator failure – Broken vacuum lines, no +12 volts, regulator coil open circuit, missing EGR vacuum regulator.)


EGR test procedure courtesy of cjones

To check the EGR valve:
Bring the engine to normal temp.

Connect a vacuum pump to the EGR Valve or see the EGR test jig drawing below. Connnect the test jig or to directly to manifold vacuum.

Do not connect the EGR test jig to the EVR (Electronic Vacuum Regulator).


Apply 5in vacuum to the valve. Using the test jig, use your finger to vary the vacuum

If the engine stumbled or died then EGR Valve and passage(there is a passageway through the heads and intake) are good.

If the engine did NOT stumble or die then either the EGR Valve is bad and/or the passage is blocked.

If the engine stumbled, connect EGR test jig to the hose coming off of the EGR Valve.
Use your finger to cap the open port on the vacuum tee.
Snap throttle to 2500 RPM (remember snap the throttle don't hold it there).
Did the vacuum gauge show about 2-5 in vacuum?
If not the EVR has failed

EGR test jig


To test the computer and wiring to the computer, you can use a test light across the EVR wiring connectors and dump the codes. When you dump the codes, the computer does a self test that toggles every relay/actuator/solenoid on and off. When this happens, the test light will flicker. If the test light remains on the computer or the wiring is suspect.

To check the EVR to computer wiring, disconnect the EVR connector and connect one end of the Ohmmeter to the dark green wire EVR wiring. Remove the passenger side kick panel and use a 10 MM socket to remove the computer connector from the computer. Set the Ohmmeter to high range and connect the other ohmmeter lead to ground. You should see an infinite open circuit indication or a reading greater than 1 Meg Ohm. If you see less than 200 Ohms, the dark green wire has shorted to ground somewhere.
 

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Last edited: Nov 27, 2016

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
20+ Year Stangneter
Aug 25, 2016
27,915
10,563
203
polk county florida
Nov 27, 2016
#29
  • Nov 27, 2016
  • #29
I didn't read through the tech stuff but just wunder'n if the pipe that feeds the heads from the pump is plugged will that throw off the no2's?
Guess I need to learn more about smog stuff, maybe not.
 
W

Walternator

Member
Apr 4, 2002
37
1
9
Nov 27, 2016
#30
  • Nov 27, 2016
  • #30
Mustang5L5 said:
Key on engine off test usually spits out two sets of numbers. One is sensor status at the moment, and the other is codes stored long term called "continuous memory". That's where you get two code "11s" before you even start the engine.

Once you start it, you can get a third code 11.

A lot of times guys confuse it with modern obd2 setups where you can just dump the codes and get them all at once. Obd1 just needs then pulled both engine on and off. Most don't realize that so just wanted to make sure you were aware


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Click to expand...
We're on the same page, then. KOEO and KOER are both giving me 11s.
 
Reactions: Mustang5L5

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,249
17,934
224
Massachusetts
Nov 27, 2016
#31
  • Nov 27, 2016
  • #31
Ok then.

What's your timing set at?


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W

Walternator

Member
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37
1
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Nov 29, 2016
#32
  • Nov 29, 2016
  • #32
Turned out to be a plugged EGR port. Thanks for all your help on this. I greatly appreciate it.
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
20+ Year Stangneter
Aug 25, 2016
27,915
10,563
203
polk county florida
Nov 29, 2016
#33
  • Nov 29, 2016
  • #33
Walternator said:
Turned out to be a plugged EGR port. Thanks for all your help on this. I greatly appreciate it.
Click to expand...
It passed?
 
W

Walternator

Member
Apr 4, 2002
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Nov 29, 2016
#34
  • Nov 29, 2016
  • #34
Just barely.
 

jrichker

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#35
  • Nov 29, 2016
  • #35
Walternator said:
Turned out to be a plugged EGR port. Thanks for all your help on this. I greatly appreciate it.
Click to expand...
I am glad to hear that it passed. Hopefully you live in one of the states where weather permits driving your Mustang all year round. Enjoy!

Which port on the EGR system was clogged or plugged?
 
W

Walternator

Member
Apr 4, 2002
37
1
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Nov 30, 2016
#36
  • Nov 30, 2016
  • #36
Dunno, I didn't have the time to do it myself, so I paid a mechanic to clean the EGR ports. It passed smog when he was done. That's good. It through a bunch of codes before I made it home. That's bad. I hate letting other people work on my car!
 
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