Engine PATS off pcm for 1999 Explorer 5.0 swap

[GOvert]

I was recently on Ebay looking for a P71 Crown Victoria pcm for my second coil-near-plug swap and came across this. If anyone is doing an Explorer 5.0 swap in a Fox body Mustang or early one for that matter, they may need a PATS off (security system switched off) pcm to make their project run.
1999-2001 Explorer/Mountaineer 5.0 pcm PATS off
I've seen these used in 1960's Mustangs and early Bronco 5.0 swaps

 

[AeroCoupe]

Most of the Explorer 5.0 swaps into a Fox body is just the engine. The wiring harness and ECU are typically existing or if the owner is going from a 4 cylinder to a 5.0 the harnesses and ECU are for a Mustang so that it will plug and play into the car. Some are going to stand alone systems like the Holley Terminator X and find a way to adapt that into the dash harness.

What I am trying to say is that I do not believe most swaps would use the Explorer ECU or harness so the PATS defeat is not a concern. You get into this with the junkyard Coyote swaps as the FMS crate motors come with an "unlocked" ECU.

 

[GOvert]

? And what you just said has a lot of variables in it too. I have seen more than one person that has used the Explorer/Mountaineer 5.0 powertrain complete (including harness and pcm) in their earlier Mustang/s and other Ford projects.
Installing 5.0 Explorer drivetrain (you can do this in a Fox body too. We already know that the AODs fit!)
Mustang/Explorer swap final video
EDITED/ADDED: But I will be converting mine to c-n-p using the Crown Vic c-o-p harness and pcm. It is amazing the performance improvement from going from one coil to 8 individual coils. (I'll try to slow down some with the 2nd conversion and take some pictures and such).
ADDED at 2p.m. : I did dig up a picture of the first 5.0 c-n-p that I did. The one that FoMoCo never did...
There are a handful or two of us people in the US that have done this to 5.0s. I saw a guy that converted his Windsor to it, and I heard someone speculatizing about doing c-n-p to a Cleveland, but I haven't seen picture proof yet.

 

[AeroCoupe]

All I was saying is the vast majority of swaps are not going to go this direction. After your explaining that you can run COP then yes I see why it would be of benefit. I would just move on to a Holley Terminator X or MSPNP as they can both do COP and are programmable.

Again, much appreciate the clarification as it makes sense why a person would use the Explorer ECU and harness.

 

[GOvert]

The Explorer 5.0s had a wasted spark ignition system. The 1999 to 2001 Explorer 5.0 pcm had PATS.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the first year that the Crown Victoria was coil-on-plug was 1998.
A few years back, I had a 1999 Ranger that had a chip key, transponder, or PATS box problem and I elected to send off my pcm to Steve in Ocala to switch off or disable the PATS function. It was about $150- after the service and shipping back and forth. The Explorer 5.0 pcm for 1999 to 2001 with PATS switched off, caught my eye when I was looking for a Crown Vic pcm, so I thought that I would pass on the info.
When I was upgrading my 5.0 from wasted spark to coil-near-plug, I was very close to purchasing the Holley Terminator X system but when I determined that if a misfire was detected, the Holley system would only tell you that the problem was either on the left bank or right, not the individual cylinder.
I expected that for $2500 or more, the system should have been advance enough to be more specific. I ended up staying with the FoMoCo pcm and harness and spent my Holley Terminator money on a laptop and various software/s and Moates QH and Scanmatik Pro2 for bin flashing.
Early on when I was first getting the 5.0 running again, I was having a recurring miss. The Ford system identified the two troubled cylinders. It made the repair of my errs easy to fix (crimp connector issues).
The stand-alone Holley or another stand-alone system would have been the faster route. But I'm still ALL FORD including the coils which became available during the initial idea. I was pretty much going to have to use LS coils when I first thought of the idea. But thank you FoMoCo for building a coil-near-plug engine in the more recent years.
I could see someone with a 5.0 Fox body Mustang needing a replacement 5.0 but being only able to find an Explorer 5.0 long block and the spirit of keeping it simple, doing a stripped down long block swap and in a reasonable amount of time, being back on the road.

 

[Noobz347]

Sounds like we need an end-to-end Progress Thread on this swap.

 

[90sickfox]

Diagnosing a misfire location is pretty easy. You can see the coils firing in the graph so firing order follows the same pattern. I'm interested to see what you use for timing reference. I have a bunch of stuff I put together for using DIS ignition. Everything but the 36;1 escort harmonic balancer.

 

[GOvert]

@90sickfox @Noobz347 I don't have a scanner or an oscilloscope to be able to see what is happening as far as misfires go. Nor do I have a temperature gun which would have been another way to check each cylinder. I was relying on the DTCs posted by the pcm.
I don't have any experience with say for example, something like HP tuner that has the scanner features built in.
I have only seen the Holley systems advertised for sale and not in operation, but I would guess that they have the scanner feature built in.
Which DIS ignition are you referring to? Wasted spark or individual coil on or near plug? The 1999 to 2001 Explorer 5.0 uses a 2 wire camshaft position sensor that is compatible with the 1999 Crown Vic pcm. Earlier 5.0 Explorers had a 3-wire cam position sensor. (IIRC, you would need a 3-wire camshaft position sensor to use with the Holley system). The Explorer 5.0 has an all in 1 HB/damper/serpentine 36-1 crank pulley. It will only work with the Explorer front dress and no other 5.0 parts from earlier engines.
Explorer wasted spark pcms only have 4 coil drivers built in. Coil-near-plug pcms (like 1998 up 4.6 Crown Vics and 1999 and up 4.6 Mustangs) have 8 individual coil drivers built in their pcms. FoMoCo is notorious for making a system change a certain year on one particular model, but not on another so determining what changes were made year to year and model to model have to be determined individually.
@Noobs347 When I can finally get into working on my 2nd conversion, I will document all of it. This winter, I'm involved with 4 projects that are mostly bodywork majorly and somewhat simple old school engine/mechanicals so not much extremely interesting.
Hopefully in the spring I can get into the next c-n-p 5.0 conversion project. I've been collecting parts for now.
1996 to 2001 Explorer 5.0 hb/dampner/pulley/36-1 pictured below.
RA file photo below. I bought a new one while they are still available.

 

[AeroCoupe]

I ran across this site when building the front suspension on my 70 F100. Hopefully you can find some good info there:

Crownvic.net | Forums powered by UBB.threads™

www.crownvic.net

 

[GOvert]

Forgive me guys for going off topic. I was originally sharing that I saw a 1999 to 2001 Explorer pcm with PATS switched off.
In the future, maybe I should make a thread and document the installation of an entire Explorer powertrain (harness and pcm included) into a '65 Mustang.
I will make my way over to the early forums when I do.
Y'all enjoy the rest of your holidays!

 

[AeroCoupe]

I will say that we derail threads like this quit a bit but as long as the OP doesn’t mind it usually ends up with a lot of good info just like this one. At least for me stuff like this is very interesting because I don’t know much about it. I can turn wrenches and chase wiring diagrams but tuning is like voodoo.

Anyhow please make a thread on this as I will definitely follow along.

Also, the Crown Vic site I posted is archaic so be patient with it. The guys there are willing to help so that’s a huge plus. Another one that is more technical is this one:

MercuryMarauder.net Forums

A discussion forum dedicated to the Mercury Marauder

www.mercurymarauder.net

 

[GOvert]

@AeroCoupe You caught my attention '70 F100. Does it have 3 '03 aluminum front end?

 

[AeroCoupe]

2006 Crown Vic police interceptor front suspension. Custom caliper adapters to mount Corvette C5 calipers and Shelby GT 500 rotors. Also have custom QA1 coil overs for the front. When I was going to run a Coyote and Precision turbo I grabbed a Volvo electric power steering pump with a custom controller. Will still most likely use it with the 408W but that’s a couple years down the road. Rear is a Fatman Fabrications four link with QA1 could overs and a narrowed 9”.

 

[GOvert]

@AeroCoupe Have you seen anyone successfully install an electronic rack & pinion off of a 2017 F150 or other Ford onto the 2003 up aluminum style front suspension?
At the shop, we have an '03 crossmember under one of the projects. We are contemplating gutting the R&P down to manual function then use 2009 Toyota Prius EPAS or electric power steering midways in the steering sector.

 

[AeroCoupe]

Yes I have. On oqe of the F100 sites I frequent. Did a quick internet search and found this video:


View: https://youtu.be/XEP1hEkMzSQ?si=hFXqSEz5PP5vuHlt

 

[GOvert]

Very nice! I'm about ten to 15 years behind on what is going on in rod and mod currently. New upgrade technology comes about so fast these days.
I've just got past 8 minutes in the video where he is rounding the head of the bolts to clear the rack rubber bellows. Maybe a large strong "carriage" head bolt could be used in its place. Standard or metric wouldn't matter, just a thought.
ADDED: I finished the video. One other thought after finishing the video, oil pan drain hole bungs can be relocated.

 

[GOvert]

I've not quite yet been able to get to my next 5.0 c-n-p mod/swap. However, last night in Wal-mart, I ran into the guy that c-n-c-'d the first set of coil brackets. I was asking him about getting a copy of the c-n-c file to use to send to send-cut-send to have a 2nd pair of brackets made on a waterjet cutting table or machine. He acted as if it wouldn't be a problem to get a copy of the file. I have paid for the c-n-c file creation the first time that I had some brackets cut.
To keep from confusing anyone, the c-n-p conversion that uses 8 individual coils would use a pcm with 8 coil drivers from a 1999 to 2004 Mustang, Crown Vic or same years V-8 truck. Not the 4-coil driver type that operates a wasted spark ignition system.