pinging at WOT, 87 octane

Serper3 · Jan 3, 2006

sorry, hopefully i wont make this too long to read..
Basicaly when driving on 87 octane in the mid to upper rpm's, if i go WOT, it seems like i am pinging. their is however no blower etc. when i use 91, it pretty much doesnt do it at all.... i used seafoam through the intake and it did make it idle better, rev cleaner but it still is seeming to ping at wot. otherwise the car drives well. i have had the car for 3-4 months now, and i am kinda wondering if the previous owner could have increased the timing etc.. i am not sure why else it would png on the lower octane. is there a way to find out if the timing is advanced etc? would using seafoam in the crankcase help any? any input or advice would be greatly appreciated! thanks.
:SNSign:

Dan_Soprano · Jan 3, 2006

Serper3 said:
sorry, hopefully i wont make this too long to read..
Basicaly when driving on 87 octane in the mid to upper rpm's, if i go WOT, it seems like i am pinging. their is however no blower etc. when i use 91, it pretty much doesnt do it at all.... i used seafoam through the intake and it did make it idle better, rev cleaner but it still is seeming to ping at wot. otherwise the car drives well. i have had the car for 3-4 months now, and i am kinda wondering if the previous owner could have increased the timing etc.. i am not sure why else it would png on the lower octane. is there a way to find out if the timing is advanced etc? would using seafoam in the crankcase help any? any input or advice would be greatly appreciated! thanks.
:SNSign:

get a data logging program like AutoTap (expensive), or get an SCT X2, that way you can datalog, and make changes if needed. Check the plugs first off and see what they tell you. If need be you can always run one step colder.

sbelyo · Jan 3, 2006

This is a normal problem. The short end of a long story is that the motor and stock ecu programming were not intended to be run on 87 octane. It will also suck plenty of oil through the intake. That will lower the 87 even further.

I solved my problem by changing my pcv, adding a moisture trap, and changing spark plugs to the copper autolite's and running nothing less that 93 octane.

You can take it one step further and buy a programmer to do one of two things. It will allow you to make use of the extra octane, or you can reduce the spark advance below normal to compensate for 87 octane fuel. Also put a moisture trap in between the pcv and the plenum. There is a walk through with pictures on how to do it somewhere here on the site

At the end of the day running something higher than 87 is the cheapest way to go

03ghoststang · Jan 3, 2006

mine did it somewhat when i used 87 but now that i have the predator tune on it and adjusted some parameters all i use is 91 octane (California gas)

Serper3 · Jan 3, 2006

sbelyo said:
This is a normal problem. The short end of a long story is that the motor and stock ecu programming were not intended to be run on 87 octane. It will also suck plenty of oil through the intake. That will lower the 87 even further.

I solved my problem by changing my pcv, adding a moisture trap, and changing spark plugs to the copper autolite's and running nothing less that 93 octane.

You can take it one step further and buy a programmer to do one of two things. It will allow you to make use of the extra octane, or you can reduce the spark advance below normal to compensate for 87 octane fuel. Also put a moisture trap in between the pcv and the plenum. There is a walk through with pictures on how to do it somewhere here on the site

At the end of the day running something higher than 87 is the cheapest way to go

by moisture trap, do u mean the same thing as an oil catch can? yea i think its time for me to get one, change my plugs.. i also need to prolly change the serpentine belt because it looks really old and it makes noises when the car is cold. i will also run 91 octane. now its ok, i just hope gas wont get super expensive like it was this summer.
also, what kind of plugs would u guys recommend? are those auto lites not oem replacements or how does all that work. thanks in advance. e

ponysarepretty · Jan 3, 2006

Buy some quality gas, higher octane gas stores less energy and is basically like retarding your timing when your engine isn't turned for it.

DBMSTNG · Jan 3, 2006

sbelyo said:
The short end of a long story is that the motor and stock ecu programming were not intended to be run on 87 octane. It will also suck plenty of oil through the intake. That will lower the 87 even further.

just plain wrong. the motor IS designed and intended to run 87 octane. there are many possible problems here. bad gas, engine temp, engine load, air temp, spark plugs, fuel injectors, fuel pump...

sgarlic · Jan 3, 2006

Not to mention a bad or contaminated MAF sensor.

trailblazr81 · Jan 3, 2006

Our cars recommend 87 octane, so if you have pinging its either bad, cheap, watered down gas or somethings wrong like dirty/bad plugs or MAF sensor, etc. I ran fine off crappy Cali 87 til I got a Diablosport Predator, and with that maxxed out I run fine off of crappy Cali 91.

Chili · Jan 3, 2006

ponysarepretty said:
Buy some quality gas, higher octane gas stores less energy and is basically like retarding your timing when your engine isn't turned for it.

It has a slower burn rate. It's not really like retarding your timing but it does conteract the advanced timing which results in more power.

The timing was probably advanced prior to you purchasing it. If running higher octane eliminated it then you should be good. If a previous owner has tampered with the tune you may want to get a dyno just to make sure your A/F is good too. If he tuned it for mods then removed them it could be off.

mrvax · Jan 3, 2006

Serper3 said:
Basicaly when driving on 87 octane in the mid to upper rpm's, if i go WOT, it seems like i am pinging. their is however no blower etc. when i use 91, it pretty much doesnt do it at all.... :SNSign:

Every car is different. My old pal Bierbelly's Mustang pinged and he had to run hi-test. Mine never did. I use 93 now b/c of the headswap. If you have a good tune-up use the lowest octane gas that doesn't ping.

sgarlic · Jan 3, 2006

Pinging is actually pretty common in these vehicles.. for whatever reason. It shouldn't be, but at least once a week I read a thread of someone with pretty much stock mods experiencing pinging, especially in the 00 and 01's.

Chances are the guy before you never touched the timing, you're just one of many unfortunate stang owners who are going to be forced to run higher octane gas.

xseler8 · Jan 3, 2006

DBMSTNG said:
just plain wrong. the motor IS designed and intended to run 87 octane. there are many possible problems here. bad gas, engine temp, engine load, air temp, spark plugs, fuel injectors, fuel pump...

Agreed.The manual will mention using a different manufacturer's 87 oct. Up-ing the octane will make problems worse.

sbelyo · Jan 3, 2006

Serper3 said:
by moisture trap, do u mean the same thing as an oil catch can?

Yep...

sbelyo · Jan 3, 2006

xseler8 said:
Agreed.The manual will mention using a different manufacturer's 87 oct. Up-ing the octane will make problems worse.

There is a Ford TSB that states if customer is complaining of part throttle ping then increasing octane is the fix.

For me it didn't make anything worse switching to a higher octane. The car ran 10 times better without any other modifications

sbelyo · Jan 3, 2006

DBMSTNG said:
just plain wrong. the motor IS designed and intended to run 87 octane. there are many possible problems here. bad gas, engine temp, engine load, air temp, spark plugs, fuel injectors, fuel pump...

I don't know about plain wrong, but I know it stopped pinging with 93 octane

Mustang5L5 · Jan 3, 2006

My Bone stock '03 GT pings sometimes on 87 octane in the summer.

Did it as low as 10K miles.

John Smith · Jan 3, 2006

A couple tuners I have talked to say they commonly see the stock tune in these cars being on the lean side. I know I had my car on the Dyno and it was running lean. The tuner stopped the dyno pull because he said he heard "pinging" (although, I looked at the Dyno sheet and it didnt look like there was any detonation. The HP and TQ curves were smooth; no jumping around or jagged line. Also the power curve was still going up, even when he said it was pinging) Any way, I am now running 91 in the car (In preparation for having a KB blower put in a couple weeks) and the car pulls a lot harder now at the top end. I also used my Predator to increase the fuel delivery by 5%.

Serper3 · Jan 4, 2006

sbelyo said:
There is a Ford TSB that states if customer is complaining of part throttle ping then increasing octane is the fix.

For me it didn't make anything worse switching to a higher octane. The car ran 10 times better without any other modifications

same with my car. my car runs better on 91 octane. it doesnt ping, sounds/revs cleaner etc. i am not sure if it pulls harder...(maybe up top..) but i will get some new spark plugs because its prolly time. anyone recommend a good spark plug? best performance etc... i will also be getting a blower soon. i know some plugs arent recommended to be used with supercharged engines so i would obviously want ones that i can use now, and with the blower later on down the line....

sbelyo · Jan 4, 2006

Serper3 said:
anyone recommend a good spark plug? best performance etc...

I used the autolite 764 with a .054 plug gap. I can't say what's good for blown engines. But these plugs were a wake up call for my stock motor. The platinum ones were terrible in comparison. The engine ran smoother than new.

pinging at WOT, 87 octane

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