power window regulator help-slop in window going down only

[boboli]

I have an 89 convertible with power windows. I decided to replace the torque pins to help my windows work better. The passenger side went fine and after some aligning the window goes up and down great. Nice and smooth and fits the weatherstripping, so no more leaks!
Started the driver's side this morning, and discovered big problems. It seems some one (who didn't know what they were doing) decided to remove the power window regulator mounting plate (the steel plate riveted to the door). I think they did this to change the motor because it was from a JY. Well they reattached the regulator with cheap bolts and then they used sheet metal screws to attach the plate to the door. Well the regulator was broken from all the slop.
Luckily I have a spare convertible so I took the regulator out of it. I used the parts car's regulator and steel plate. Riveted everything back together. Then replaced torque pins in the motor and realigned everything. The window goes up smooth, but when it comes down it is jerky and rocks. Going down, you will hear the motor first, then the window jerks down a bit. I tried realigning for several hours until I discovered that if I bring the window down about an inch, I can grab the window and pull it up and down nearly the inch I lowered it. I can see the regulator move a little ( up and down) like the torque pins haven't been replaced. I can't tell if the motor is turning as well. I don't think so. I tried putting the rebuilt window motor gear in a different motor to see if that helps, but same results.
Anybody know what might be causing the slop in the regulator motor assembly. How can i remove the slack in the system. The regulator seemed good, but I had never used it in the parts car.
If it was the passenger's door, I would leave it apart till I fixed it. It sucks driving around with no door panel and a junky window.
thanks for any help

 

[Lawbreaker5.0]

I'm not 100 percent sure I did it correctly and I tried searching and came up with no results so take what I say as opinion not facts. I installed power windows in my notch and when I installed the regulators I just threw them in. Well the passenger window dropped like an inch or so as soon as I hit the down button. Finally I took the regulator back out and wound up the spring and put a bolt with a big washer through the hole to keep it in place. I then installed the regulator back in and riveted down. After it was set I unscrewed the bolt. I also changed out the rubber bushings in the motor. Either way the slop dissappeared and the window seems to work fine.

 

[boboli]

After thinking about it. The spring not being tight enough does make sense. Going up, tension is kept in the gears. I bet with the spring too loose, there is nothing keeping tension on the glass so it falls once the tension from the gears is removed. Probably also what causes the jerky operation

Lawbreaker5.0- Do you remember what your regulator/ arm looked like after you wound it? On the drivers side, the part where the motor mounts is @ 3 o'clock and the arm in the window was @ 9. Straight across pretty much. Did you get your arm to more of a 7 o'clock? maybe tighter?
Also can the regulator be removed without unriveting the steel plate it attaches to?

 

[Lawbreaker5.0]

I didn't have to unrivet, I just spread the two pieces as I wound. There is a dowel pin that look like it should come to help winde it up but I could not tap it out with the tools I had.

 

[boboli]

I didn't have to unrivet, I just spread the two pieces as I wound. There is a dowel pin that look like it should come to help winde it up but I could not tap it out with the tools I had.

So did you take the whole electric window assembly out as 1? I mean the mounting plate with the regulator still riveted to it? then did you wind it like that? Can you please give me some more details.
I don't see how you can wind the spring to anymore than where I have it. You would have to go around another whole turn, and the spring would be so tight that I am afraid that it will break free and break a finger. It takes a lot of strength just to get around another 1/2 turn and I am not a small guy. It seems that it would be incredibly dangerous to get it any tighter. Plus, I doubt the window would operate properly since the motor would be fighting the spring.
I tried a few different things and 5 hrs later it still doesn't work right, but i removed the regulator from the steel plate.
I did compare how the window slides up and down with the passenger window on my parts car. They both seem to have the same amount of resistance from the spring i.e. not much. The parts car doesn't look to have been touched since it was built so I would assume the regulator is tensioned properly. Anybody know how much tension the spring adds.
This regulator has a lot of free play (side to side) in it so I am considering trying to get another. Maybe the free play is allowing the motor to twist the regulator gear, then the window drops down to make up the distance the regulator has moved from a twisting motion.

 

[Lawbreaker5.0]

So did you take the whole electric window assembly out as 1? I mean the mounting plate with the regulator still riveted to it? then did you wind it like that? Can you please give me some more details.
I don't see how you can wind the spring to anymore than where I have it. You would have to go around another whole turn, and the spring would be so tight that I am afraid that it will break free and break a finger. It takes a lot of strength just to get around another 1/2 turn and I am not a small guy. It seems that it would be incredibly dangerous to get it any tighter. Plus, I doubt the window would operate properly since the motor would be fighting the spring.
I tried a few different things and 5 hrs later it still doesn't work right, but i removed the regulator from the steel plate.
I did compare how the window slides up and down with the passenger window on my parts car. They both seem to have the same amount of resistance from the spring i.e. not much. The parts car doesn't look to have been touched since it was built so I would assume the regulator is tensioned properly. Anybody know how much tension the spring adds.
This regulator has a lot of free play (side to side) in it so I am considering trying to get another. Maybe the free play is allowing the motor to twist the regulator gear, then the window drops down to make up the distance the regulator has moved from a twisting motion.

I would love to know the exact regulator install procedure but unfortunately i couldn't find it anywhere. Maybe someone has the Ford tech manual and could post it? I originally installed the regulators with the bare minimum tension on the spring, it seemed fine until i noticed the drop in the window and one day i shut the door and the spring just fell out and dropped to the bottom of the door. Thats when i decided to wind the spring up one time and stick the bolt through it. You have to wind the regulator with it out of the vehicle. I unbolted the motor and then moved the regulator forward towards the front of the vehicle and slipped it out once it came out the track.

I got some help on another site and member said the window should not drop when the motor is taken off. Well i know for a fact mine did the way i orginally installed it becuase one day it was so freeking hot outside and i didn't have the windows hooked up yet and i was about to pass out driving my car so i had to stop at an advance autoparts and buy a $10 ratchet set. I went out to the parking lot and unhooked the motors and both windows dropped all the way down.

When i did wind the regulator it took some pressure to get that last half turn. I had to hold the arm part with my foot on the ground while i pushed the mounting part around. I had the bolt ready right next to me and slipped it through the big whole and with one hand tighten the nut. I installed (opposite how i removed it) it and riveted about three of the six into the door then unbolted the bolt. I could push the window down with little effort and it would spring it back up. I have no clue if this is the correct way or not and would love to see the correct way but there is nothing on the internet so who really knows?

 

[boboli]

Thanks for the advice.
I may try to tighten the spring some more. I may try looking for another regulator.
I have the factory service manuals and they don't say anything about how to tension the regulator. They pretty much just say pull it out and put it back. they do tell you to unrivet the regulator from the metal plate and slide it out. They're pretty useless.

 

[Lawbreaker5.0]

Thanks for the advice.
I may try to tighten the spring some more. I may try looking for another regulator.
I have the factory service manuals and they don't say anything about how to tension the regulator. They pretty much just say pull it out and put it back. they do tell you to unrivet the regulator from the metal plate and slide it out. They're pretty useless.

Whatever you do post it up as i would like to know more about the regulators. The only thing i could see wrong with the way i did it is it might wear out the motor faster, although it seems like it goes down about the same speed as my vert.

 

[boboli]

Whatever you do post it up as i would like to know more about the regulators.

I did not come up with any new info. I tried to tension the old regulator I took out of the car another turn to see if it the window dropping was just a tension problem. I got to about 3/4 of another turn, and it was so tight. I figured there was no way that from the factory, the regulator was this tight. It would have the tension of a mouse trap!.
I think the problem with the window falling after the motor/regulator moves down is due to the regulator being worn out. I tried many different adjustments ( convertible has too many adjustments!!) and it always had the same problem. I watched, and when the window regulator reaches the top of its range it then would twist a bit ( ie flexing/ spreading between the 2 arms). I think when the regulator moves down, it first has to move through this twist and then pull the window down. Once the twist is removed from the regulator seems to be when I can push the window down.
I unfortunately could not find a good, cheap used regulator and i had to put the door back together because the car needed money spent on other issues. Too bad the fox windows are the only regulators you can't find new.