Putting a Stop to Oil Consumption through the PCV Valve

Hink · Jun 20, 2006

vristang said:
Hink -
What on earth is that

What is the green cannister? Is that plumbed into the pcv line?

Better yet, can you just provide some verbal description of what you have setup?
Maybe a few lines of text to go with the pic.

How is it working for you?

jason

The Green aluminum bottle has a hose on bottom and a nylon double barb that goes into the pvc grommet on the lower intake. On top of the green bottle there is a pvc valve. The idea is the oils can fall back into the crankcase, vs having to empty a catch can at times. Have a lot less oil in upper intake still getting some. Haven't had any oil leaking out of my air filter since doing this at least. I call it a highrise pvc setup.
Hink

vristang · Jun 20, 2006

Hink said:
The Green aluminum bottle has a hose on bottom and a nylon double barb that goes into the pvc grommet on the lower intake. On top of the green bottle there is a pvc valve. The idea is the oils can fall back into the crankcase, vs having to empty a catch can at times. Have a lot less oil in upper intake still getting some. Haven't had any oil leaking out of my air filter since doing this at least. I call it a highrise pvc setup.
Hink

On the hose that runs from the green can to the upper intake, I see a t-fitting. Where does the smaller hose run?

I am curious to hear how this works. I have my doubts though. Unless you have some baffles in the green can, I am not sure how oil is being knocked out of the crankcase air.

Put some miles on it and come back to let us know.

jason

TheBocSez · Jun 20, 2006

$uperstang said:
Well guys got my car back from the body shop after the Storman Norman Hood install, Looks KILLER! And finally for the GREAT NEWS. I relocated my PCV valve to my driver side valve cover and ran the hose from the valve under my intake through the oil seperator (in-line) and to the intake. Stock location PCV valve in the lower intake is now plugged. Still have the TB tube for fresh air connected to my pass side valve cover.

NO MORE OIL!!!!!

Thank GOD this worked for me!!!

I am having a similar problem with my Cobra intake. Apparently I am easily confused. Please help me understand your set up better.

You plugged the PCV hole in the back of the lower intake - understand that.

You moved the PCV to the drivers side valve cover - understand that.

The part I bolded is confusing me.

Dont understand what hose you ran where. Please help my simple mind.

Are you saying that you ran a hose from your relocated PCV valve to the vacuum fitting under the upper intake and placed a seperator in line with that hose?

Have a pic by chance?

Thanks

TheBocSez · Jun 20, 2006

Also, is the PCV valve tapped directly into the VC? if so, how does this prevent oil being sucked up through it? The PCV valve would seem to be closer or at least as close to an oil source with the rocker arm flinging it all around. Wouldnt it stand to reason that if your VC to TB hose can suck oil all the way up the filler neck, that the PCV could suck oil up too?

Hink · Jun 20, 2006

vristang said:
On the hose that runs from the green can to the upper intake, I see a t-fitting. Where does the smaller hose run?

I am curious to hear how this works. I have my doubts though. Unless you have some baffles in the green can, I am not sure how oil is being knocked out of the crankcase air.

Put some miles on it and come back to let us know.

jason

That small line runs to my water. The green bottle has no baffling , since the diameter expands net velocity would have to reduce is my idea. Then some of the oil in suspension should fall out. Oh btw, just made a spark plug pic post my plugs are way cleaner now than they were on last change. Think have had a few hundred miles of driving or so with this system attached . I am guessing had around 500 mile at most on last set and some of the insides are nearly full of the soot, or carbon.Before mods to pvc setup was going thru around a half quart of oil every 50 miles or so.
Hink

vristang · Jun 20, 2006

Hink said:
That small line runs to my water. The green bottle has no baffling , since the diameter expands net velocity would have to reduce is my idea. Then some of the oil in suspension should fall out. Oh btw, just made a spark plug pic post my plugs are way cleaner now than they were on last change. Think have had a few hundred miles of driving or so with this system attached . I am guessing had around 500 mile at most on last set and some of the insides are nearly full of the soot, or carbon.Before mods to pvc setup was going thru around a half quart of oil every 50 miles or so.
Hink

So to clarify that is not a T-fitting. There just happens to be a coolant line running below a splice in your pcv line.

I agree with the velocity reduction theory, as this is how I explain why 2 pcv valves has worked so well for me.

Are your pcv hoses dry now?
It sounds like this is a viable solution.
Where did you source the green can from?

jason

1990Coupe · Jun 20, 2006

Subscribing becasue i just got my stang (3rd one) and i plan on doing this, and im not too sure yet if i have an oil problem. Although i do see alot of dried oil around the throttle body area, and the car when hot stalls and dies im thinking i have a pvc issue.

Hink · Jun 20, 2006

vristang said:
So to clarify that is not a T-fitting. There just happens to be a coolant line running below a splice in your pcv line.

I agree with the velocity reduction theory, as this is how I explain why 2 pcv valves has worked so well for me.

Are your pcv hoses dry now?
It sounds like this is a viable solution.
Where did you source the green can from?

jason

1. The T fitting in PCV line is for holding a nozzle that goes to the small line which is my water source. Experimenting with water injecting into upper intake plenium. Getting close to having the flow rate wanted now. The flow is suction based. At the moment flow is a bit on small side, but better small than large. Will experiment more later when car is running ok again.
2. Checked Hose from PCV at top of green can , only evidence of small amounts of oil on top of the nippled edge of pcv extrusion that hose goes over. Could not get any oil to run out of hose, looked fairly dry at that point. Checked at entry into T fitting (by removing water nozzle) to upper plenium only small amounts of oil there.
3. The green can is a Engine oil additive "Greased Lightning" Instant Engine Treatment. Bought it at the local NAPA. The can is made of fairly thick aluminum metal.
Hink

vristang · Jun 20, 2006

Hink said:
1. The T fitting in PCV line is for holding a nozzle that goes to the small line which is my water source. Experimenting with water injecting into upper intake plenium. Getting close to having the flow rate wanted now. The flow is suction based. At the moment flow is a bit on small side, but better small than large. Will experiment more later when car is running ok again.
2. Checked Hose from PCV at top of green can , only evidence of small amounts of oil on top of the nippled edge of pcv extrusion that hose goes over. Could not get any oil to run out of hose, looked fairly dry at that point. Checked at entry into T fitting (by removing water nozzle) to upper plenium only small amounts of oil there.
3. The green can is a Engine oil additive "Greased Lightning" Instant Engine Treatment. Bought it at the local NAPA. The can is made of fairly thick aluminum metal.
Hink

Are you running boost?
Why the desire for water injection?

I would think that using the pcv line would not be ideal for the water source. I worry that under certain conditions water could end up in the crankcase (I will have to ponder on this however).

Vac based water flow seems backwards to me. I would think that the water would be more useful under WOT - low vac/high load conditions. Doing this would require a water pump however. This is assuming your motor is n/a though.
This is quickly getting off topic though.

Just some thoughts to consider.
What do others think?

jason

Hink · Jun 20, 2006

vristang said:
Are you running boost?
Why the desire for water injection?

I would think that using the pcv line would not be ideal for the water source. I worry that under certain conditions water could end up in the crankcase (I will have to ponder on this however).

Vac based water flow seems backwards to me. I would think that the water would be more useful under WOT - low vac/high load conditions. Doing this would require a water pump however. This is assuming your motor is n/a though.
This is quickly getting off topic though.

Just some thoughts to consider.
What do others think?

jason

:OT:
1. Motor is normally aspirated
2. Motor is 10.2 compression and running mixed octanes for saving a bit of cash premium is expensive , Have a timing adjuster "Retard dial" attached to Crane Ignition box been adjusting for no pings on idle with this.
3. Easy to tell if water is in crankcase, will see steam or condensation in separator (fuel filter on oil cap setup to drain back). Only had water showing there after engine pulled two liters fast so far. (Setup was off a bit) If the engine is hot the excess water will evaporate quickly, as long as there isn't too much Good thing have 7 quart oil pan installed.
Hink

Hink · Jun 20, 2006

:Word:
Oh, for anyone interested in buying cans like the one my setup has. My local NAPA had the product, but were in plastic this time
Thats some lost sales for Greased Lightning makers probably . Will be on the lookout for a substitute can now .
Sincerely ,
Hink

Mopar1 · Jun 20, 2006

Hink said:
1. The T fitting in PCV line is for holding a nozzle that goes to the small line which is my water source. Experimenting with water injecting into upper intake plenium. Getting close to having the flow rate wanted now. The flow is suction based. At the moment flow is a bit on small side, but better small than large. Will experiment more later when car is running ok again.

Damn I have an old E-brock water injection system I took-off the R/T, that the previous owner put on it. It's sitting on the self and will stay there.

This be what it look like

View attachment 461284

Here's some info.

The best water injection system I've ever used was the Vara-Jection unit manufactured by Edelbrock. It's infinitely tuneable. They ceased production of them because the motor home guys would hook them up to their 50 gal on-board water tanks and turn the adjusters on full bore. They were blowing so much water in the motor that the inside of the intakes rusted up. The motor home owners then sued Edelbrock for damages and that was the end of that. One of the best engineered products on the planet takes a dump because of some dumbass motor home owners. Like we used to say in the Navy, "there's always that 1 percent". You can still find these units occasionally on e-bay for around U.S.$50. The link that caprice posted is a "vapor injector" as opposed to a water injector. When I was a kid, we used to make homemade injectors from an old windshield washer unit. If I remember right, we used a 0.030" orifice mounted on the airhorn and a microswitch to make the connection to the WW pump at somewhere around 1/4 to 1/2 throttle. We'd pull the microswitch open with a spring so that the switch wouldn't be stressed. You'll be somewhere around ideal if you run half and half distilled water and isopropyl alcohol. Most isopropyl that you find in the grocery or drug store is 70%, so 2 quarts of that mixed with 3 quarts of water should be about the right mix. As an aside, several years ago, I called Edelbrock and tried to buy the blueprints to the Vara-Jection product, but was told that all of it had been destroyed. What a shame.
_________________
Richard.

Mopar1 · Jun 20, 2006

vristang said:
Are you running boost?
Why the desire for water injection?

I would think that using the pcv line would not be ideal for the water source. I worry that under certain conditions water could end up in the crankcase (I will have to ponder on this however).

Vac based water flow seems backwards to me. I would think that the water would be more useful under WOT - low vac/high load conditions. Doing this would require a water pump however. This is assuming your motor is n/a though.
This is quickly getting off topic though.

Just some thoughts to consider.
What do others think?

jason

I'm not grasping his concept of puting water into the crankcase.

Here's a thread from some chevy guys talking about the water injection I'm thinking of.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21692&highlight=holley+vacuum+carbs

Hink · Jun 21, 2006

Mopar1 said:
I'm not grasping his concept of puting water into the crankcase.

Here's a thread from some chevy guys talking about the water injection I'm thinking of.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21692&highlight=holley+vacuum+carbs

1. The water is being injected via a small nozzle in the pvc line, which then enters the upper plenium, the water is allready warm from its bottle being in the engine compartment. So it easily becomes a vapor(hopefully ?) as it exits the nozzle and gets pulled by intake vacume into air incoming thru the throttle body and on into the lower plenium and intake valve into the combustion chamber then, only if too much is pulled in (not a vapor a stream of water) then it ends up in crankcase thru washing down cylinder walls perhaps, unless it can seep down thru the lower intake some other route?

2. Heres the web site my system is based on, http://website.lineone.net/~da.cushman/misc/mannject.html

Hope this explains my setup a bit
Hink

dragnazz5.0 · Jun 21, 2006

this water injection is a neat idea. i remember seeing a guy back when i worked at advance auto that had a gatorade bottle under the hood with two holes drilled in the top. one hole had a hose that went down to the bottom with one of those rock filters for a fish tank and the other hose stuck in the bottle about half an inch and went to the intake manifold. the bottle was only half full and filled with water and a little bit of alcohol.

on the other hand, injecting water into the cylinders as a mist is a great idea would definety keep the cylinders clean since water produces steam and in turn would be basically steam cleaning the piston and rings. i think im gonna try this. just gonna be hard to do it with metered air i think and getting the idle correct.

Hink · Jun 21, 2006

topic

We have all gotten a bit off topic here, it is interesting tho. Maybe a moderator could move all the water injection stuff into a new thread ?
Sincerely ,
Hink

BlackVert · Jun 21, 2006

Hink said:
:Word:
Oh, for anyone interested in buying cans like the one my setup has. My local NAPA had the product, but were in plastic this time
Thats some lost sales for Greased Lightning makers probably . Will be on the lookout for a substitute can now .
Sincerely ,
Hink

awesome! i want to do this as i have been going through a quart per fill up.

any thoughts on a cambell's soup can? sounds kinda ghetto, but strip off the label and it should do the trick ...

and can you provide more details on how you hooked it all up, like what you used to connect to the pcv opening in the lower intake and how you made the airtight connections to the can?

got any more pics or maybe a closeup on the connections?

Hink · Jun 21, 2006

BlackVert said:
awesome! i want to do this as i have been going through a quart per fill up.

any thoughts on a cambell's soup can? sounds kinda ghetto, but strip off the label and it should do the trick ...

and can you provide more details on how you hooked it all up, like what you used to connect to the pcv opening in the lower intake and how you made the airtight connections to the can?

got any more pics or maybe a closeup on the connections?

1. Soup can , you would have to do more fabrication work than with an aluminum bottle(if you wanted good draining), but can be done probably.

2 Details, on former top of bottle(neck) :Bottom part of can now!
A. Put a hose piece around or near radiator hose size over the neck and clamp (Radiator style Stainless clamp).
B. Insert a hose into the hose, (terminated at end of added hose) to make up size difference between the nylon barb.
C. Insert a Double barbed nylon piece (should be same size as pvc valve and inner diameter of bottle hose). Which goes into the lower intake rubber grommet, that used to hold the old pvc valve .

Sorry don't have a pic of the lower part at the moment, will get some shots after Napa receives a new pvc grommet probably . The one one on my car at the moment is tore up some, even tho it is very new.
Hink

vristang · Jun 21, 2006

BlackVert said:
awesome! i want to do this as i have been going through a quart per fill up.

any thoughts on a cambell's soup can? sounds kinda ghetto, but strip off the label and it should do the trick ...

and can you provide more details on how you hooked it all up, like what you used to connect to the pcv opening in the lower intake and how you made the airtight connections to the can?

got any more pics or maybe a closeup on the connections?

I would say to try an oil separator from Home Depot/Lowes first. Hinks setup is good, and I am sure it works well, but it does not have a method of actually separating the oil out from the air.
Hink, if you could install some baffling or maybe some mesh material in the can you would have a better setup.
As it is right now, I would stick with an oil air separator, as it is designed to force air to flow along the outside of the bowl where oil can accumulate on the side walls.
An oil air separator will reduce the velocity of air in the bowl, and has a method to extract oil from the air. Hinks design currently has a method of reducing the velocity of crankcase gasses, but no provision for extracting oil from the air.

Hink has a great idea, and has shown some creativity in developing that idea. I just think it needs some refinement.

Hope I haven't offended you Hink.

jason

Hink · Jun 21, 2006

vristang said:
Hink has a great idea, and has shown some creativity in developing that idea. I just think it needs some refinement.

Hope I haven't offended you Hink.

jason

Haven't bud. I got more tricks up my sleeve still, that haven't been mentioned here yet. Like for instance if you're willing to give up a small amount of space near the pvc screen in the lower plenium with about 11 cents worth of parts you can add a sort of a baffle under the pvc wire screen. Use two stainless nuts with nylon lock builtin and one washer that just fits down the screen hole and a bolt that goes all the ways thru the pvc wire screen. Think there was one other washer used smaller to fit inside the main one as its inside hole was a bit larger or close to the size of the thru screws head.
I can see the pic request now,
Hink

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