Question about camshaft + 94-95 ECU incompatibility

Stormwalker · Oct 31, 2007

My brother has been having some trouble with his car. He has a 95 GT that he just did a h/c/i swap on, and it is not running very well. It WILL NOT idle whatsoever, and isn't very drivable at lower rpms. At high rpm-wot it runs beautifully.

The sad part about this is, this is after he took it in to get dyno tuned (http://www.dbperformancetuning.com/).

The tuner told him that 94-95 Mustangs are very finicky about camshafts, and the only way one can change out from the factory camshaft is to have one custom ground. Either that or convert the ECU and harness to a fox computer. He is currently running a TFS stage 1 cam.

If it matters, his h/c/i combo is TFS track heat heads w/ 1.6rr, TFS1 cam, and Cobra intake.

I thought that I had heard of folks running different camshafts with success in 94-95 Mustangs, so I figured I would post here and see what some folks more familiar with these cars think. The tuner was evidently supposed to be knowledgeable, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to double check.

Thanks for any input.

final5-0 · Oct 31, 2007

Stormwalker said:
My brother has been having some trouble with his car. He has a 95 GT that he just did a h/c/i swap on, and it is not running very well. It WILL NOT idle whatsoever, and isn't very drivable at lower rpms. At high rpm-wot it runs beautifully.

The sad part about this is, this is after he took it in to get dyno tuned (http://www.dbperformancetuning.com/).

The tuner told him that 94-95 Mustangs are very finicky about camshafts, and the only way one can change out from the factory camshaft is to have one custom ground. Either that or convert the ECU and harness to a fox computer. He is currently running a TFS stage 1 cam.

If it matters, his h/c/i combo is TFS track heat heads w/ 1.6rr, TFS1 cam, and Cobra intake.

I thought that I had heard of folks running different camshafts with success in 94-95 Mustangs, so I figured I would post here and see what some folks more familiar with these cars think. The tuner was evidently supposed to be knowledgeable, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to double check.

Thanks for any input.

That guy is living in the past :Word:
and
He has not kept up with things as they have progressed

Peeps do custom cams to make power
and
Specify how the power band will turn out to be

The thought that peeps do custom cams to make the pcm play nice
with mods is a commonly misunderstood topic of discussion.

btw ... we got several members here who've run that same cam
and
They did not go to an older Fox pcm

A GOOD Pro Tuner
Should be able to make your SN pcm work just dandy with your combo

By the things you said ............

Sounds as if this guy has mostly dealt with Fox Stangs

I got ALL those hot rod parts and my 95 GT behaves just like a
little Stocker Stang with the exception of cam lope

I'd tell you to find another shop that is living in the year of 2007

Grady

94v6GT · Oct 31, 2007

It seems to be harder than it should be to find people to tune sn95's.
-T4MO's have been around for 13 years and some people still haven't mastered them? 13 years into the A9L(2001) era people had them figured out, right?

final5-0 · Oct 31, 2007

94v6GT said:
It seems to be harder than it should be to find people to tune sn95's.
-T4MO's have been around for 13 years and some people still haven't mastered them? 13 years into the A9L(2001) era people had them figured out, right?

Something that is kinda interesting about our two year car run when talking
the pcm is a lot of the things that are different from the older Fox pcm's was
and still is, to this day, being used.

Then again you see W A Y more Fox Stangs than our Stangs so tuners just
naturally have more experience with the older stuff.

I would certainly want to know someone I was gonna pay to tune my Stang
had satisfied 94-95 customers :Word:

Grady

urban96 · Oct 31, 2007

the car should hold some kind of idle. what kind of MAF/injectors is he using?

check timing and make sure there is no vaccume leaks

Al J · Nov 1, 2007

I've had no idle problems whatsoever w/my H/C/I upgrade using a very conservative "Baby Crower" cam & stock "no chip" computer.

95BlackTan50 · Nov 1, 2007

Is your brothers car an Auto or Stick shift? The AODE PCM has an idle in drive value of 600 RPM and idle in neutral value of 640 RPM. The 5 speed idles at 704 RPM so you would have less trouble with the stock PCM. Idling at 600 or 640 RPM would give you more problems with a cam.

Like Grady said, it can be tuned.

Barney

Stormwalker · Nov 1, 2007

Car is a 5 speed.

I believe he is using 24# injectors and a 75mm maf (calibrated to 24# inj). Forget which brand, but want to say Pro-M, I think he wanted to stay away from c&l. I can check for sure tonight if it's important.

If it is the tuner, he won't be happy. I think he forked over around $600 for the tune.

However, if the car *should* be able to be tuned for a TFS1 cam, then I guess the tuners didn't do their job.

Thanks for the input.

final5-0 · Nov 1, 2007

Stormwalker said:
However, if the car *should* be able to be tuned for a TFS1 cam, then I guess the tuners didn't do their job.

Thanks for the input.

I absolutely hate to see info be spread around
and
Be thought of as FACT

I can understand about hearing things ... I really can

HOWEVER

As was said before

Peeps here have tuned their h/c/i 94-95 Stangs with that exact same cam
and
They have done it with great success

This is simply and plainly ... F A C T :Word:

In no way can I be sure of the ability of the tuner you guys used
but
I just wanted to make it clear ... Peeps here have the fruit of success
and
NOT just a bunch of ... He said this ... or ... They said that

Grady

drewzx3 · Nov 1, 2007

When I put my trick flow in I got a mail order tune from lassota racing and it is fine now.

GRGT1994 · Nov 1, 2007

You should be able to get that cam running fine even without a dyno tune (dyno tune only deals with WOT anyway - although most shops also tune for idle and driveability). I'd guess you have other problems.

Zero_chance · Nov 1, 2007

the problem is vacuum at idle but its tuneable. too late now but the steeda 19 is designed to counteract this prob.

Don 95Vert · Nov 2, 2007

Our 700+ RWHP turbo 95 has a pretty radical cam and it can be daily driven. It drives pretty close to stock with a T4M0 and a tune. We just finished up a customer's 95 with a T-trim, Ed cam and Dart 347 that should have stock driveability - it made over 600 to the tire.

Of the 94-95 cars we see that won't idle well, there is a hidden mechanical problem behind it. Once it's fixed, it'll idle fine - with a good tune on it. I get calls all the time from other SCT dealers asking for help with tuning 94-95's so they must be a problem - I just never had a problem with them myself.

Don

final5-0 · Nov 2, 2007

Don 95Vert said:
Our 700+ RWHP turbo 95 has a pretty radical cam and it can be daily driven. It drives pretty close to stock with a T4M0 and a tune. We just finished up a customer's 95 with a T-trim, Ed cam and Dart 347 that should have stock driveability - it made over 600 to the tire.

Of the 94-95 cars we see that won't idle well, there is a hidden mechanical problem behind it. Once it's fixed, it'll idle fine - with a good tune on it. I get calls all the time from other SCT dealers asking for help with tuning 94-95's so they must be a problem - I just never had a problem with them myself.

Don

Well

I ain't afraid to say it

Many different peeps have ways to access the 94-95 pcm's and make whatever
changes they see fit

Some just are more efficient at doing it

I'd tell you its as simple as this

Some have put in the time, effort, and study to learn how the pcm works

Those who have done that are more capable when it comes time to optimize
things no matter if talking WOT (dyno conditions) or drivability conditions.

Don is just one of those guys who have sown in that field of learning
and now
He has the benefit to reap the fruits of success for his efforts :Word:

I have learned a good bit from him over the years

Not everybody is willing to share knowledge like that
and having said that
I say to him one more time ... Thanks Don

Grady

juiced_94gt · Nov 2, 2007

a GOOD tuner will make it run smoothly with the 94/95 PCM...I have the TFS Stage 2 cam on my 331 with AFR 185's and ALL the mods that are not supposed to work with a 94/95 computer but Steve @ Powertrain Dynamics made it idle and run butter smooth!!!!!!!

final5-0 · Nov 2, 2007

Zero_chance said:
the problem is vacuum at idle but its tuneable. too late now but the steeda 19 is designed to counteract this prob.

I do think the vacuum is a good point to make here

I'd say low vacuum is gonna effect things like brakes and the like.

The pcm has no knowledge of vacuum.

As for the #19 cam .......
The bulk of the combos I've seen using it have had soft low ends

I say pick a cam that will
make the amount of power you want
and
make it with a power band you desire

I just gotta think ... Most of the time .......

Consideration for drivability is most likely gonna sacrifice power

The drivability can be dealt with by pcm optimization
but
Then again ... tuning is gonna cost you some dollars

I guess it boils down to

You wanna do without Dollars or Power

Grady

Question about camshaft + 94-95 ECU incompatibility

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