Rough Shifting Feeling with the 5 Speed

[Fast Eddie 41]

30 hp??? that doesnt add up, only 15-18 percent of your total power is lost through the drivetrain. if you gain 30 hp, that would mean you are only losing 2-5 percent. i guess its possible if you had your entire drivetrain coated,

It's wise to learn about what you speak of.. so that you don't put your foot in your mouth.

The more power you make... the more you reap the benefits from the Mikronite process. We know of a 1800+ RWHP Pro Outlaw car that gained a little over 90 RWHP by just having the ring and pinion gears done. He showed a 4.2% reduction in drivtrain loss. Pro Stock/Pro Mod guys and some Top Fuel and NASCAR guys have known this secret for some time....it is starting to gain clout with the younger crowds now.

 

[Stan Weiss]

Yes it is. What I want to point out was that for performance some people were willing to live with the noise of straight cut gears on the street. I remember riding in a friends car (FORD 429 SCJ) that had a Detroit Locker in it. How many people would put up with that noise, but it was the next best thing on the street to a spool.

 

[Rickyll7]

Thank you Stan.

BTW Rickyll7, the Mikronite process is NOT a coating. It is a very hi-tech method of polishing and strengthening a specific material. These guys are gaining 8-12 RWHP on relatively stock Mustangs by just having the ring/pinion gears Mikronited. NASCAR and NHRA/IHRA have been doing this for a while now. If you were to do the pinion journal, carrier journal, and transmision gears prior to assembly, and additinal 18 RWHP, or a total of 30 RWHP could easily be gained.

They are also finding decent gains by doing valvesprings, bearings, and camshaft followers and rockers.

http://www.mikronite.com/overview.asp
http://www.mikronite.com/documents/ValveSprings.pdf

I am not trying to call BS on anyone, I have just never heard of this and am curious. The reason I ask questions is because going from 350 rwhp to 380 rwhp is like earlier said, going from 15% loss to 7.7%. This implies that the gears rough surface is causing 1/2 of the drivetrain loss, what about the tranny, bearings, etc. The ring and pinion gear are by no means are 1/2 of the drivetrain. And even then, you are assuming that all of the loss from the ring and pinion are being eliminated, not possible with any material, losses will be there. So if you assume that 75% of the loss from the ring and pinion gear is being reduced, then that means that the ring and pinion gear composed well over 1/2 the total original drivetrain loss. I do believe that there is probably a gain, but I suspect that these dyno comparisons may be misleading. Anyone can gain 2-5 hp from run to run with zero mods. Does this sound crazy???

EDIT:
Well, if this is 100% true, then it just sounds too good to be true. I would love to try this myself!

 

[LaserRed01GT]

I am not trying to call BS on anyone, I have just never heard of this and am curious. The reason I ask questions is because going from 350 rwhp to 380 rwhp is like earlier said, going from 15% loss to 7.7%. This implies that the gears rough surface is causing 1/2 of the drivetrain loss, what about the tranny, bearings, etc. The ring and pinion gear are by no means are 1/2 of the drivetrain. And even then, you are assuming that all of the loss from the ring and pinion are being eliminated, not possible with any material, losses will be there. So if you assume that 75% of the loss from the ring and pinion gear is being reduced, then that means that the ring and pinion gear composed well over 1/2 the total original drivetrain loss. I do believe that there is probably a gain, but I suspect that these dyno comparisons may be misleading. Anyone can gain 2-5 hp from run to run with zero mods. Does this sound crazy???

EDIT:
Well, if this is 100% true, then it just sounds too good to be true. I would love to try this myself!

The rear end soaks up the majority of the power lost through the drivetrain. Roughly 65% according to all the dyno testing results I have seen. The relationship between the pinion gear and the large and heavy ring gear are the reason for this as they bear most of the torque load in the drivetrain. This is especially true on Ford rear ends like the 8.8" and the commonly used 9". On Ford rear ends, the pinion gear centerline is actually below the ring gear centerline as opposed to other "make's" rear ends where the pinion gear centerline is very close to the ring gear centerline.

It doesn't sound crazy at all. People just need to have an open mind. In know it's hard for some racers to accept stuff like this that is slightly "outside the box" thinking, but the fact that this has been proven beyond any doubts to give honest and impressive power gains speaks for itself. This isn't some fly by night company trying to make a buck. They are a well known and established company that spends a lot of time and money to utilize the latest in technology to bring us this kind of stuff.

Instead of immediately jumping to the conclusion that this is somehow too good to be true, perhaps you could take some time to learn more about it and instead welcome the technology behind it, and be happy that there are other gear heads out there still finding ways for us to put even more power to the pavement to leave the rice burners in the dust.

 

[Rickyll7]

The rear end soaks up the majority of the power lost through the drivetrain. Roughly 65% according to all the dyno testing results I have seen. The relationship between the pinion gear and the large and heavy ring gear are the reason for this as they bear most of the torque load in the drivetrain. This is especially true on Ford rear ends like the 8.8" and the commonly used 9". On Ford rear ends, the pinion gear centerline is actually below the ring gear centerline as opposed to other "make's" rear ends where the pinion gear centerline is very close to the ring gear centerline.

It doesn't sound crazy at all. People just need to have an open mind. In know it's hard for some racers to accept stuff like this that is slightly "outside the box" thinking, but the fact that this has been proven beyond any doubts to give honest and impressive power gains speaks for itself. This isn't some fly by night company trying to make a buck. They are a well known and established company that spends a lot of time and money to utilize the latest in technology to bring us this kind of stuff.

Instead of immediately jumping to the conclusion that this is somehow too good to be true, perhaps you could take some time to learn more about it and instead welcome the technology behind it, and be happy that there are other gear heads out there still finding ways for us to put even more power to the pavement to leave the rice burners in the dust.

Sounds about right!
Thanks to all of you for schooling me on drivetrain loss, I guess I always was a skeptic

 

[Stan Weiss]

Talk about doing transmissions. Look who uses it.

http://www.libertysgears.com/mikronitepage.pdf

 

[LaserRed01GT]

Talk about doing transmissions. Look who uses it.

http://www.libertysgears.com/mikronitepage.pdf

Very cool. I wonder if Lenco has considered this or if they are using it already too. I am going to have to ask Mikronite if they would like a TR3650 as a guinea pig to test.

 

[thomas91169]

I've noticed that the shifter on my 02 Mustang doesn't feel smooth when I shift into the various gears. This happens only while I'm shifting into 1st, 2nd , 3rd and 4th gear. My clutch feels okay and the reverse gear is fine. The gears don't grind or anything like that, but I don't get the buttery smooth shifts as much anymore like I used to. The shifter stays in gear and I don't have any problems with the shifter popping out of gear while I'm driving or while I'm shifting. But the shifting feels a little rough. Is this normal? What causes the rough shifting?
My car is a 2002 Mustang 5 speed manual with the V6 engine in it.

you drive a mustang. get used to it. we dont buy these things cause they drive and feel like beamers...........

 

[Stan Weiss]

The March issue of "HOT ROD" magazine came in the mail today and there on page 30 Mikronite buys Crane Cams.

 

[LaserRed01GT]

The March issue of "HOT ROD" magazine came in the mail today and there on page 30 Mikronite buys Crane Cams.

No kidding. I guess this can only mean one thing, business is good at Mikronite.

 

[blacksheep-1]

So like, what about this guys tranny now that the post is hijacked 6 ways to Sunday?

 

[LaserRed01GT]

So like, what about this guys tranny now that the post is hijacked 6 ways to Sunday?

Hey Tom, don't you have a fire to go fight somewhere. LOL

 

[PonyboyIsaac]

heres a good vid on mikronite, for those who never heard about it. http://videos.streetfire.net/search/mikronite/0/e2b71bdc-80e6-4d03-81c9-987100245b61.htm

 

[RED2001GT]

you drive a mustang. get used to it. we dont buy these things cause they drive and feel like beamers...........

I agree with you. I was told by a Ford mechanic that the roughness that I feel while I shift into 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear in my 2002 V6 Mustang is normal. But as my car is getting older, I noticed that this roughness feeling in the shifting occurs more often than it did before. My car has only 39,000 miles on it right now and I've religiously followed the service schedule. I understand that none of the Mustangs have a buttery feeling when shifting into gear. Most of them have a rough feel to them while shifting into gear.
In my 2002 V6 Mustang, sometimes the shifter shifts smoother than other times. But sometimes it also shifts rough. I wonder what makes this occur? Is there something in the design of the shifter which makes it feel rough while shifting or is it something in the transmission which make it feel rough like that? This roughness occurs on my 02 V6 Mustang by the way.

 

[LaserRed01GT]

Is there something in the design of the shifter which makes it feel rough while shifting or is it something in the transmission which make it feel rough like that? This roughness occurs on my 02 V6 Mustang by the way.

The T-45 and T-5 also have blocker rings like the TR3650. The T-45/T-5 blocker rings are made of a powdered metal steel, but they are lined with the same organic/carbon fiber friction face. These are pretty sensitive to trans oil temp and will engage differently on under different conditions. Also the cone shaped engagment surface of the actual gear itself is different on 1st and 2nd as compared to 3-5. Reverse does have a blocker ring and synchromesh. The reason it just feels rough is because you are having to engage the idler gear. Try pulling it into 4th before you put in Reverse, it should help.

Here is an exploded diagram of a T-45 just to give you an idea:

View attachment 411526

View attachment 411527

View attachment 411528

 

[Stan Weiss]

That looks like fun. I have not rebuilt a trans in along time (4 speeds) but it looks like all cages bearings and not all of these #$%^@@# needles to play with on the cluster.