steer me in the right direction (engines)

DukeGnarley · Oct 31, 2010

Ok, well I've spent a few years away from my mustang, stretching and building my own suspension for my jeep for a school project

But now I'm back. Currently I have a '65 convertible stripped down to a rolling chassis. It just needs a little more work and I'll have all of the rust issues taken care of. Also I'm in the middle of installing some tin man sub frame connectors i bought a few years back. It has a 4 point roll bar, but depending on which engine I go with, i may add door bars to strengthen up the unibody further.

My main question is which engine would you guys recommend. I've been back and forth in my mind between a 408 or a super charged 5.0, or a NA 5.0 or 351. There are too many options. I will be running either a gforced T5 or a TKO600.

The plan for the car is to make a summer time daily driver that can at least keep up with the new GTs, so I'm looking for around 350-400rwhp. Since it's a DD, i want to keep it as drivable as possible and keep the fuel consumption down as much as possible (high teens or better <-- that's realistic right?).

I want to get this figured out before i get too far into my build, so I can keep my eyes out for used parts and basically just have a plan.

Thanks,
Duke

tx65coupe · Oct 31, 2010

My vote goes for a naturally aspirated roller 302 (5.0). The other options are cool, but just overkill in my opinion. If its going to be a fun cruiser this is all you need.

This is what I have with a carb and it gets 20 mpg on the highway. I average about 16-17 mpg with city/highway/mild hot rodding.

Loup-garou · Oct 31, 2010

How about a "split the difference" 5.0 stroker? Everyone seems to go for the 347 but the 331 is said to have more longevity. Start with carburetor induction, then add EFI before deciding whether to install a supercharger.

I see complete Explorer/Mountaineer 5.0 engines for sale online; if you are interested in doing the EFI install at some point, that would be a bargain - the intake is the same as the '93 Cobra.

DukeGnarley · Oct 31, 2010

If I went the 5.0 route I wouldn't stroke it. I don't see the point when the block is limited to 500 hp, and I can get 4 more cubes, a better rod ratio, and more block strength out of a 351.

I will probably be running EFI with any engine. I would either be running a junk yard ford setup or megasquirt. I had a carb on my last mustang and it worked ok, but for a daily driver I want the hassle free starting of efi.

palerider94 · Oct 31, 2010

347 or 331 for HP you are looking for is your best bet. Better fit in 65/66 than 351 based block. I've got a 66 vert I'm doing and will probably go with a ford racing 306.

DukeGnarley · Oct 31, 2010

I've been thinking about this all day. I'm starting to lean towards running a supercharger on a 5.0. I may not get the numbers I'm looking for initially, but it's something i can build in stages, and has the cool factory of being just a little different.

start with an explorer 5.0 with the gt40P heads, add a camshaft to wake it up a bit (frp E303?).

add a paxton or vortech super charger, and then when i have more money swap the heads for something like afr 185s

does that sound reasonable? to meet my goal of 350 rwhp, I'd need about 410-440 at the crank.

Will the stock rotating assembly handle that, or will I need to go up to forged components?

BubbaB1966 · Oct 31, 2010

If you are going to supercharge, all rotating assembly needs to be forged. Also need to let the machine shop that does your block work know, as there are tighter tolerances for supercharged motors.

tx65coupe · Nov 1, 2010

The reason I like the 302 is that its lighter than the 351. In a 65-66 Mustang that is small and light, extra nose weight is undesirable in my opinion.

blown65 · Nov 1, 2010

tx65coupe said:
The reason I like the 302 is that its lighter than the 351. In a 65-66 Mustang that is small and light, extra nose weight is undesirable in my opinion.

Not only that, but I really dislike how tight things get with the 351 in a 65-66 engine bay.

DukeGnarley · Nov 1, 2010

DukeGnarley said:
I've been thinking about this all day. I'm starting to lean towards running a supercharger on a 5.0. I may not get the numbers I'm looking for initially, but it's something i can build in stages, and has the cool factor of being just a little different.

I'd start with an explorer 5.0 with the gt40P heads, add a camshaft to wake it up a bit (frp E303?).

add a paxton or vortech super charger, and then when i have more money swap the heads for something like afr 185s

does that sound reasonable? to meet my goal of 350 rwhp, I'd need about 410-440 at the crank.

Will the stock rotating assembly handle that, or will I need to go up to forged components?

edit: maybe just gt40 heads and not the Ps

Decurion · Nov 1, 2010

I dont know that I would be so quick to dismiss a stock block. I work with a guy that is building a 331 and putting a 101mm turbo on it. He plans to make in the neighborhood of 1300 hp, so you should be ok at 500 with a bit of the right prep work. Granted hes done a lot of work to the block itselft to help it last, but he says he still doesnt plan on it lasting very long. In any case, I wouldnt waste my time with gt40 heads. Theyre great for 300-350 fwhp, but if you want to make 400 at the wheels youll need either more cubes or boost (or both ). A 331 will easily make 400 at the wheels without a lot of boost and still be docile enough to drive regularly while getting decent mileage.

DukeGnarley · Nov 1, 2010

well from what I've read on the turbo forums, plenty of people have cracked their blocks around 500-550 hp. The stud girdles don't do anything but keep the pieces together (which is good, but doesn't help strength). I don't know if "block prep" is really going to do anything to improve strength.

If i keep the engine in the 450 fwhp area, I should be ok. It should be pretty easy to get with medium boost, nice heads, cam, and intake. I think DSS claims 600 hp on their level 20 blocks, but again, I don't see those being any stronger than stock.

tx65coupe · Nov 2, 2010

blown65 said:
Not only that, but I really dislike how tight things get with the 351 in a 65-66 engine bay.

That is a very good point too. I don't particularly care for that either.

tx65coupe · Nov 2, 2010

I would go supercharged if you decide to go that route. I'm not a fan of turbos on classic Mustangs.

DukeGnarley · Nov 2, 2010

I considered twin turbos for a little while, but then decided that i couldn't live with how the engine bay looked, and how crouded it would be, so if I go with boost it's going to be a supercharger. I found one guy on the net with a kenne bell in a '65, but he needed to run an ugly hood to make it work, so I would probably end up with a paxton or vortech.

I think you guys have talked me out of the 351/408 for this build. maybe for my next car.

10secgoal · Nov 2, 2010

Decurion said:
I dont know that I would be so quick to dismiss a stock block. I work with a guy that is building a 331 and putting a 101mm turbo on it. He plans to make in the neighborhood of 1300 hp, so you should be ok at 500 with a bit of the right prep work.

Make sure to call BS on him for jerking you around lol The stock block would get to about 75% of the boost level needed to make that before it pukes it guts out.
If your only going for 400 rwhp, save your money and just keep stock crank and rods. Upgrade the rod bolt for S&G's, forged piston's call it a day. No matter the engine combination if you use a stock block it's the weak point. No sense in putting money towards a rotating assembly when you can hit the same power level with a smaller engine.

DukeGnarley · Nov 2, 2010

10secgoal said:
If your only going for 400 rwhp, save your money and just keep stock crank and rods. Upgrade the rod bolt for S&G's, forged piston's call it a day. No matter the engine combination if you use a stock block it's the weak point. No sense in putting money towards a rotating assembly when you can hit the same power level with a smaller engine.

So, Would you recommend going with a stock HO short block if i can find one in good shape? It would probably save enough money to go a long ways towards some good heads, and they have forged pistons. Late Model Restoration also has a rebuilt 5.0 short block with forged pistons for $1200.

10secgoal · Nov 2, 2010

Nothing wrong with it if your going to apply boost. As long a that engine is build worth a damn it should be fine. Usually 10 psi and a turbo gets you 400rwhp on a stock 5.0. A blower would need a little more boost to do it. Or there is stroker with HCI, but I like boost more personally. A little more street friendly.

blown65 · Nov 2, 2010

Decurion said:
I dont know that I would be so quick to dismiss a stock block. I work with a guy that is building a 331 and putting a 101mm turbo on it. He plans to make in the neighborhood of 1300 hp, so you should be ok at 500 with a bit of the right prep work. Granted hes done a lot of work to the block itselft to help it last, but he says he still doesnt plan on it lasting very long. In any case, I wouldnt waste my time with gt40 heads. Theyre great for 300-350 fwhp, but if you want to make 400 at the wheels youll need either more cubes or boost (or both ). A 331 will easily make 400 at the wheels without a lot of boost and still be docile enough to drive regularly while getting decent mileage.

LOL 1300hp and stock block.

tx65coupe · Nov 3, 2010

I always thought it would be cool to get this.

http://www.ritzsite.nl/Shelby-Mustang/1966_Poster_Car/1966_Ford_Shelby_Mustang_GT-350_engine.JPG

steer me in the right direction (engines)

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