Steve's Megasquirt/tunerstudio Help Thread

twohawks777@cox · Feb 8, 2018

twohawks777@cox said:
Wired everything. This is what I came up with. I do not think I have it right!

It appears that everything is hooked up correctly.

Sparky714 · Feb 8, 2018

a91what said:
I'm sure altering the files is just another skill to learn but never having done it makes it seem daunting.
Maybe I will have to look into it further a member here is trying to use a raspberry cpu to talk with the ms2 over can that will display sensor information onto a 7"lcd display that runs tuner studio for his instrument cluster.
I wish Matt would make an account here.

I've been looking into using a Raspberry Pi running tuner studio too. I found this and it looked interesting http://pidash.webs.com/buy-now . I could piece the parts together and just buy the operating system, but haven't decided which way to go yet. I just want it for a cheap tuner studio interface rather than dragging a laptop along in the car.

FastDriver · Feb 9, 2018

Guys, I know I'm not MS, but this is the best tuning thing going that I know of on SN. I just wanted to jump in and ask what you think about these timing tables.

This is the original table that I got back from a dyno session with my 331 tuned on 93 octane pump fuel.

I adapted the above tune into a base tune for the '93 GT, a turbocharged 363 with the same heads that I'll be running on 91 octane.

My initial changes (below) to the table consisted of adjusting idle (bottom left area), and giving myself a safety net up top. It should never get into those 8* cells, but it did once, and I'm glad it pulled all the timing out of the motor. The other change I made was to everything 100 kPa and above. Because it was a 93 octane tune, I pulled out timing by giving the table an 88% multiplier. I basically wanted to see around 15* on the 207kPa line (~15.5psi).

After reading some more, I'm starting to feel pretty good about the top half of the table: conservative, but not overly so. Is that a fair assessment in your opinions? Finally, I've been scratching my head about timing in the bottom half of the table dropping as RPM increases. That doesn't seem to follow. If anything, I expected advance to increase, and after comparing it to the stock base tables and to steve's video, I decided to make some adjustments. First, I kept the spark high all the way out to the right side of the table. Also, I backed off of that 42* on the bottom row. I'm still a little concerned that it might be too aggressive at low load 1500-2000 rpm, though:

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Hopefully, dropping some BS3 stuff is related enough that it won't be frowned upon.

5.0Thunder · Feb 9, 2018

FastDriver said:
Guys, I know I'm not MS, but...

Your ignition table looks somewhat safe from what I've seen with boosted small blocks. 15psi on 91 octane means you better have a lower compression engine built for boost, which I assume your 363 is. As far as your high RPM low load (lower right) portion of the table, I typically see them taper down similar to your first table. I believe this is because that area of the table is only used when decelerating after a high RPM pass, where the car doesn't need ignition advance and isn't trying to make power. The car will hardly ever be in that portion of the table unless you make a 7500RPM hit and chop the throttle (at the end of a race), that is if you're crossing the line at redline. I wouldn't worry about that too much but my preference is to pull some timing out.

stanglx2002 · Feb 9, 2018

Sparky714 said:
I've been looking into using a Raspberry Pi running tuner studio too. I found this and it looked interesting http://pidash.webs.com/buy-now . I could piece the parts together and just buy the operating system, but haven't decided which way to go yet. I just want it for a cheap tuner studio interface rather than dragging a laptop along in the car.

I thank you for this as it seems someone has finally come out with another good powered 3A over the normal 2A car power supply switch then just the normal mausberry switch that is always "out of stock". I will have to look more into this switch, so I don't have to make my own anymore.

I will be keeping my thread updated as I proceed with the new dash. I am hopefully planning on installing the OS and TS on the RPi this weekend.

stanglx2002 · Feb 9, 2018

FastDriver said:
Guys, I know I'm not MS, but this is the best tuning thing going that I know of on SN. I just wanted to jump in and ask what you think about these timing tables

I would have to add some feedback to your idle section of the timing table. You need to have a 4-6 cell section that has the same timing values or you will have the normal idle surge issue. This is due to the increasing and decreasing of the timing making your rpms go up and down.

What is the normal kPa your car idles at?

Also, if you need a picture of how I set mine up let me know.

a91what · Feb 9, 2018

+1 however it won't matter all that much what happens in the bottom right side of the table, you will almost never be there. I like to keep idle timing above 19* when using a stoic mixture at idle(14.7) otherwise the headers will glow red. If you experience header glow bump the timing up at idle to alleviate that. In the cruise area of the tune (80kpa down and 1800rpm to 2800) you may need more advance depending on your AFR there, I run a 15.5 AFR in those areas. to stop misfire issues I found 43* of timing was needed. The misfire will be felt as small surges on the highway.
Under cruise conditions the leaner the fuel mix the more timing you need to light it off.
Tuning cruise is the opposite of idle you want to make less power so the throttle is held open farther to keep the car at the same rpm. Leaning the mix and adding timing will do this, it's counter intuitive but you want LESS vacuum running down the road to minimize pumping losses.

The boost curve looks conservative I use something similar in my base tunes

a91what · Feb 9, 2018

Picture time

My afr table on my current build with 10psi on 93octane. this timing table is my normal tune with no Wmeth, I use table switching to add 6* while the meth is spraying. I could probably add more with the meth but I want it to stay together. %baro is the same scale as KPA

stanglx2002 · Feb 9, 2018

a91what said:
Picture time

My afr table on my current build with 10psi on 93octane. this timing table is my normal tune with no Wmeth, I use table switching to add 6* while the meth is spraying. I could probably add more with the meth but I want it to stay together. %baro is the same scale as KPA

Thanks for the pictures. I just compared mine and the timing seem to be about the same as you, but the AFR table you went richer quicker than I did. I adjusted mine and will see how it reacts.

twohawks777@cox · Feb 9, 2018

a91what said:
Ok I should have checked the input voltage then. You did have something on the o2 input for voltage but I assume it was nothing.

Btw yes you need to wire the wideband into the MS otherwise I can't help much... I need to be able to see how the engine is doing that is my main tuning weapon.

Ok doubled checked everything.Everything is wired correctly.

5.0Thunder said:
FYI @twohawks777@cox , wire the blue wideband wire to pin 21 on the optional input (26 pin) and run the black wideband wire to a sensor ground like Pin 22. These Autometers aren't set up in TS so you create a linear calibration in the "Calibrate AFR" dialog where 0v = Min AFR and 4v = max AFR. You can set the min and max on the wideband itself to something like 10 & 18 for a standard resolution (0.5 volts per AFR point), in which case 0v=10 and 4v=18. This is how I have both of mine set.

When you do this, you should see the exact same numbers on your Tunerstudio Dashboard gauge that you do on the Autometer gauge. Also I think it's safe to unplug the factory narrowband sensors if they're installed.

Ok doubled checked everything.Everything is wired correctly. Please look at my latest data log and tune when you get a chance. When using your specs. getting a red gauge? Car running very rich. Help...... LOL

5.0Thunder · Feb 9, 2018

twohawks777@cox said:
Help...... LOL

I'll try to look over these when I get home today. send a pic of the wiring when you get a chance, just to double verify on our end.

FastDriver · Feb 9, 2018

5.0Thunder said:
15psi on 91 octane means you better have a lower compression engine built for boost, which I assume your 363 is.

Yes. 9.2-9.3 ish.

where the car doesn't need ignition advance and isn't trying to make power.

Ah! Gotcha. Thanks!

stanglx2002 said:
I would have to add some feedback to your idle section of the timing table. You need to have a 4-6 cell section that has the same timing values or you will have the normal idle surge issue.

Spent a long time tuning Idle. It's cradled at 800 at 48-50 kPa. Stays right between those 2 cells and doesn't surge. No IAC. All controlled with this table and an idle RPM modifier table. If I run into surge issues in different conditions, I'll know what to do, now. Thank ] I like to keep idle timing above 19* when using a stoic mixture at idle(14.7) otherwise the headers will glow red. If you experience header glow bump the timing up at idle to alleviate that.

Thank you. I based idle timing on what the BS3 manual said to do. He said trade off throttle set screw for idle and get it as close to 10* as possible. This car doesn't like 10, but my '91 is happy at 10, no problem. I will keep ateye on header temps.

In the cruise area of the tune (80kpa down and 1800rpm to 2800) you may need more advance depending on your AFR there, I run a 15.5 AFR in those areas. to stop misfire issues I found 43* of timing was needed. The misfire will be felt as small surges on the highway.

I'll be damned! And here I thought my recently repasted TFI module was still acting up in just this one spot. Now I know what to do.

Under cruise conditions the leaner the fuel mix the more timing you need to light it off.
Tuning cruise is the opposite of idle you want to make less power so the throttle is held open farther to keep the car at the same rpm. Leaning the mix and adding timing will do this, it's counter intuitive but you want LESS vacuum running down the road to minimize pumping losses.

The boost curve looks conservative I use something similar in my base tunes

Thanks. I like the idea of a nice lean cruise. I've set a couple cells to 15. However, I'd left it there because the BS3 only reports ranges up to 15.9:1. So, I like knowing just how far off my fuel is. I think I'll add a little more range to the 15.0 cells and may lean it further in the future like in your tables.

Thank you so much for the thoughts guys. I will play around with all of the recommendations.

5.0Thunder · Feb 9, 2018

twohawks777@cox said:
Help...... LOL

I looked over your tune and it appears you don't have a wideband turned on in your "calibrate AFR settings".

It should look like this when you "write to controller" (connected to ecu obviously)

Then go in to your wideband and make sure the Min AFR is 10 and Max AFR is 18 to match these settings.

twohawks777@cox · Feb 10, 2018

Question. When you say "
Then go into your wideband and make sure the Min AFR is 10 and Max AFR is 18 to match these settings." Are you referring to a setting actually physically on the meter itself?

a91what · Feb 10, 2018

twohawks777@cox said:
Question. When you say "
Then go into your wideband and make sure the Min AFR is 10 and Max AFR is 18 to match these settings." Are you referring to a setting actually physically on the meter itself?

I believe so, however most wb come with a pre-scaled output. It should be in the documentation that came with the wb.

5.0Thunder · Feb 10, 2018

twohawks777@cox said:
Question. When you say "
Then go into your wideband and make sure the Min AFR is 10 and Max AFR is 18 to match these settings." Are you referring to a setting actually physically on the meter itself?

Yes, you have to use the "Mode" and "Select" buttons on the wideband to set the limits so that they match your tunerstudio limits. Check the manual for directions on how to do this (pretty simple).

As Steve said, they do come pre-set, probably from 10-20. My intention here is to modify the factory range a tad in order to increase output resolution for a little more accuracy. Most widebands are 0-5v from 10-20AFR but these are 0-4v so by changing the scale to 10-18AFR, we achieve the same resolution as the other 5v widebands.

twohawks777@cox · Feb 11, 2018

Thanks.Figured it out. Everything is set I believe.I did another 10 minute run in idle this morning

bmays · Feb 11, 2018

Hey everyone, I posted previously about a stumbling issue/lean spike I'm having at low load and cruising around 2500rpm. I've upped the VE value in the area where the issue arises and it seems to have helped but the stumbling is still barely there without showing a lean spike.

I'll attach a drive log and my tune. Just want see what you all think and if you have any input on my tune. Engine is a 9:1 compression 306, GT40P heads, TFS stage 1 cam.

Thanks!

5.0Thunder · Feb 11, 2018

twohawks777@cox said:
Thanks.Figured it out. Everything is set I believe.I did another 10 minute run in idle this morning

I'm not able to see if the "Calibrate AFR" settings are correct in your tune, I think because I don't have the full project. I do have a concern with your 3 main tables. The AFR table is scaled to 200kpa. Is this a boosted engine? The fuel and ignition tables only go to 100kpa (no boost) and it would be super dangerous to produce boost on those tables.

That said, the datalog shows that you're pig rich at cold start and have low ignition timing so I'd decrease the warmup enrichment to get that AFR around 12-12.5 when cold. Usually about 13.5-14 when warm is good. I usually like ignition timing closer to 16-18 on these cars but your results may vary here for that.

Throttle position sensor is showing numbers below 0 so it needs to be calibrated correctly.

5.0Thunder · Feb 11, 2018

bmays said:
Hey everyone, I posted previously about a stumbling issue/lean spike I'm having at low load and cruising around 2500rpm. I've upped the VE value in the area where the issue arises and it seems to have helped but the stumbling is still barely there without showing a lean spike.

I'll attach a drive log and my tune. Just want see what you all think and if you have any input on my tune. Engine is a 9:1 compression 306, GT40P heads, TFS stage 1 cam.

Thanks!

I didn't have much time to look through your tune but from my glance at your datalog, I noticed you have a pretty high Acceleration Enrichment. If it was me, I'd probably look at the Accel Enrichment table (TPS based) and decrease those values a bit. Use like 1/4 or 1/3 of what they currently are and see if it helps make it a bit more crisp.

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