Suggestions Please

d98gt · Nov 1, 2006

Aww yes, I am in need of some help from people that are actually informed on the subject. I have a slow NPI GT as the name states

Now, I am picking up some P.I Cams next week since the gains are decent and I am getting them for cheap. I'm getting an o/r H along with the cams for $150 so I can't pass it up

Anyways, There is also another person selling PI Heads and im going to include the pictures so someone that actually knows about them can visually check them and give me an opinion if they are worth the purchase or not. He's asking $200 for them, though what all will I need after this purchase if I were to make it?
View attachment 427712 View attachment 427714 View attachment 427716

So basically I already have the cams bought, just not too sure if I should dish out the money for those heads or not

Gearbanger 101 · Nov 1, 2006

Well, they're Romeo heads which is good if that's what you've got. Count the bolt holes that secure the valve covers to make sure you're running a Romeo and not a Windsor. Romeo heads have 11-bolt holes for the valve covers (2 in the timing cover), where Windsor’s have 13 & 14 bolt holes (2-in the timing cover). If memory serves, '98 engines could have been one or the other, so make sure you've got a Romeo before you go plunking down the cash....otherwise you're going to have to buy valve covers to go along with them.

Make sure the cam journals are smooth and unscored and that the head surface has no deep nicks or scratches. Anything deep enough that you can dig your thumb nail into near one of the combustion chambers or water passages is going to require having the heads milled, so keep this in mind. Also, if they’ve got a lot of miles on them, expect to have to replace the valve seals and have a fresh valve job done. Otherwise, scan the heads over for cracks and see what you find.

d98gt · Nov 1, 2006

Well the cams have pretty low miles on them, and im not sure about the heads (didn't ask). They aren't from the same car/seller.

I'll see if I can get a picture of the cams for viewing purposes tomorrow, though I expect them to be in pretty good shape. The heads I just wasn't too sure about. I'm not aware of the Romeo to Windsor change taking place in 98, I think it happened later on

How much of a difference in power am I looking at if I went with NPI Head+PI Cam vs. PI Head+PI Cam? I'd hate to purchase the heads and then have to put more money into them if the gains aren't going to be too major

Thanks for the info Gearbanger, I appreciate it greatly.

Gearbanger 101 · Nov 1, 2006

You're looking about a 10-15hp difference between the NPI Heads/PI cams and PI Heads/PI cams. The PI heads are slightly better flowing in stock trim for starters and you'll benefit from the jump in compression ratio from 9.0:1 to about 10.4:1.

Keep in mind though, if you weren’t running high test fuel before, you’re certainly going to have to after the PI head swap. It’s worth it IMO, unless you’re planning to run some sort of forced induction in the future. You might want to consider working the NPI heads in order to improve the flow, but retain the 9.0:1 compression.

d98gt · Nov 1, 2006

The car will see no boost in the future so that isn't a concern. Not really even wanting to be forced to run higher octane fuel being as the car will never be "fast".

Would it be more cost effective to get these PI heads for $200 (in what price range would a valve job run?!?), or to get the current heads reworked? I assume the PI heads?

I'm just trying to get a ballpark range of what im going to spend here. That way i'll know what else I can add to the list and so on

Thanks once again.

Dusstbuster · Nov 1, 2006

Well if you get the PI heads you'll have to run 93 octane fuel. If you retain the NPI heads you'll lose that compression ratio boost and the 10-15hp it gives you. Keep in mind though that those 10 horses will mean the difference between taking all the pullies and front cover off, removing the headers, removing the heads, replacing the heads, replacing the timing chain/ensuring the correct timing/replacing cams, and all that. IMO i'd just do the pi cams/manifold and call it good. It's really up to you but that's my opinion and i'm sure for every person saying to do one thing there is another saying don't do it. It's up to you though and whether or not you want to run the higher octane gas and go through all that extra hassle for the added gains.

Any sort of porting, be it on the NPI heads or PI heads, will obviously require them to be off the block though so if you planned on porting heads you might as well get the PI's and have them ported, then swap them out. Either way you'll have to run higher octane gas. The only way to retain your 87 compatibility is with the NPI heads.

d98gt · Nov 1, 2006

Well thats what I really was trying to figure out. There is no way in hell I could tackle the install myself with the limited tools/knowledge that I have.

I just sent him a message saying I was going to pass on them. I am just going to stick with the cams for now, though still unsure of when i'll get them installed.

So with the PI Cams and the PI IM, I am looking for what type of gains? I still need to locate a intake manifold, though they aren't too hard to locate

the98stang · Nov 1, 2006

Gearbanger 101 said:
Anything deep enough that you can dig your thumb nail into near one of the combustion chambers or water passages is going to require having the heads milled, so keep this in mind. Also, if they’ve got a lot of miles on them, expect to have to replace the valve seals and have a fresh valve job done. Otherwise, scan the heads over for cracks and see what you find.

head resurfurfacing is dirt cheap, so you might as well do it as insurance. New valves is a given...

Pennywise2 · Nov 2, 2006

I would jump on that deal if that is the route that you want to go.
Physically they look to be in good shape.You mite want to put new
valves and valve springs on them before you install them on your car.
From what I hear you will receive 10-15 rwhp more going with the PI
cylinder heads.I choice to go the PI cams and intake route because I
see a Procharger P1SC in my mustangs future!

d98gt · Nov 2, 2006

Well I already turned them down due to others being interested The price was good, though I imagine a headswap install would cost an arm and a leg

I'm just looking for a low 14 second car, so I can pass on the heads for now.

Dusstbuster · Nov 2, 2006

If low 14's is all you want then you really don't need the heads for that. A friend of mine has a totally NPI engine GT w/ 4.30's, 5spd, stock headers, O/R midpipe, plenum/TB, and he womped me before my swap and was running mid 14's at the track. I have a feeling it'd be a lot closer between the 2 of us and when I put on my TB/midpipe i'll blow him out of the water hopefully, meaning PI internals but NPI heads will put you easily into the low 14's high 13's with a good driver and some airflow mods/tune.

Plus the cam swap is easily a doable project for a DIY'er. Before we did my swap I had a very limited knowledge of engine internals and stuff, I knew the basics like "the cam needs to be put back in the exact way it came out or else my engine is effed due to PTV and stuff" and that's about it. We used basic hand tools and without the problems we ran into with the manifold gasket leaking coolant we could have had it done in a few days with only 2 or 3 hours being put in a day. Doing the heads would have added another week onto it at least and also added a lot more chances to mess something up along the way.

Rickyll7 · Nov 2, 2006

Those are windsor heads, NOT romeo.
If you purchase those heads, you will need to buy windsor valve covers and maybe some other parts, not sure.
I just used romeo heads for my car, so I reused my stock valve covers.

edit: (my 98 came with romeo block/heads. not sure if all 98's had the romeo engine. count your valve cover bolts as mentioned above.)

Gearbanger 101 · Nov 2, 2006

Rickyll7 said:
Those are windsor heads, NOT romeo.

You sir, are correct. I misscounted the valve cover bolt holes when I first looked at them.

Rickyll7 · Nov 2, 2006

Yea, its easy to tell with the valve covers off. The romeo heads have 2 peice cam journal caps, (two parts per head). The windsor cam journal caps are separated as shown above.

d98gt · Nov 2, 2006

Well thanks for clearing that up for me

I'm just going with the cams and the intake manifold. I haven't bought the intake as of yet though.

speedfreak98r · Nov 2, 2006

After reading this thread, I've come to my PI choice..VT stage 2s, and PI intake..Will I need to change anything up to put the PI intake on the NPI heads?

d98gt · Nov 2, 2006

You'll have to decide which gaskets to go with to determine where to put your RTV for the intake to go on the heads without it leaking coolant.

Rickyll7 · Nov 2, 2006

some companies sell adapter plates, or you can use the rtv. I would choose the adapter plates if I were you.

d98gt · Nov 2, 2006

The adaptor plates are pretty expensive for what you get though

There are many people on here that have plenty of miles and the RTV is still holding up fine. I'll go that route once I get into installing the parts. I'm just now rounding up the needed items

Dusstbuster · Nov 2, 2006

I'd steer clear of adapter plates just for the fact that they mess up the mixture of fuel and air. D98 the link in my sig should hopefully help you with the needed parts/liquids/etc.

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