T5 questions, replace vs rebuild

AnthonyA1234 · Nov 1, 2022

Wanted to get some of your guys opinions on the situation I’m in right now. So I have my foxbody, 1992 Mustang GT, at the shop right now getting the rear main seal replaced along with some other things. It grinds second and reverse and pops out of gear occasionally so I figured now was a good time to rebuild the tranny as well. I talked to the shop owner about it and asked him a ballpark and he told me the guy he has that he sends trannys to to get them rebuilt it’s usually around 5-600. He’s been having trouble reaching out to the guy but he finally got a price from him and he said he’s now charging 1150 and that includes labor and the usual parts that need replacing (my guy said that’s bearings and synchros). The shop owner recommended to me that we could just get a new world class t5 transmission which he told me is a more upgraded t5 than what I have right now and he could get one of those for 2 grand.

Now that I’m doing research on these “world class t5s” from what I’ve been reading I think my car already came with that from the factory. Could anyone clear this up for me?
Does anyone know anyone in the south Florida area that rebuilds transmissions so I could see if I could find someone that will do it for cheaper?

AnthonyA1234 · Nov 1, 2022

After doing some more research I’ve found pro motion power train. They’re who I bought my king cobra clutch their website says their labor for rebuilding is 400 plus parts and shipping. Has anyone sent their tranny to get rebuilt by them or know anything about them? I can’t find any bad reviews on them.

Mstng93SSP · Nov 1, 2022

Your 92 came with a world class t5.

TOOLOW91 · Nov 2, 2022

AnthonyA1234 said:
After doing some more research I’ve found pro motion power train. They’re who I bought my king cobra clutch their website says their labor for rebuilding is 400 plus parts and shipping. Has anyone sent their tranny to get rebuilt by them or know anything about them? I can’t find any bad reviews on them.

If you insist on a rebuild call bob hanlon

I’d just put a tremec TKX in it

Mustang5L5 · Nov 2, 2022

AnthonyA1234 said:
It grinds second and reverse and pops out of gear occasionally so I figured now was a good time to rebuild the tranny as well.

Popping out of gear might suggest an issue with the actual engagement teeth of the gears themselves

AnthonyA1234 said:
charging 1150 and that includes labor and the usual parts that need replacing (my guy said that’s bearings and synchros). The shop owner recommended to me that we could just get a new world class t5 transmission which he told me is a more upgraded t5 than what I have right now and he could get one of those for 2 grand.

$1150 is pricey for just bearings and the wearable parts for the synchros, but those kits have gotten up there in price and are now in the $400-500 range for just those parts. So $500-600ish is a bit on the high side for labor, but i guess that's to be expected for a trans shop. The issues is the hard parts like gears and synchro sliders are NOT part of that basic rebuild kit, so if he tears that all apart and finds the gears themselves are damaged, that will drive the price up. You really need an inspection first before knowing the total carnage. MOST of the T5's i've pulled apart with any sort of mileage on them have always had damage to some of the hard parts, particularly the 1-2 slider. Estimate each new hard part in the $100-200 range. Needless to say, I would expect that $1150 quote to go up a bit if additional wear is found.

A T-5Z is a $2K direct replacement. It has some slight upgrades but it's brand spanking new.

M-7003-Z is $1950 from various sources. Some with free or very cheap shipping. I would purchase based on who offers the best warranty deal with the trans

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-7003-Z

You can also do a TKX swap, but that will be more expensive

General karthief · Nov 2, 2022

AnthonyA1234 said:
After doing some more research I’ve found pro motion power train. They’re who I bought my king cobra clutch their website says their labor for rebuilding is 400 plus parts and shipping. Has anyone sent their tranny to get rebuilt by them or know anything about them? I can’t find any bad reviews on them.

I got my (new) T5, cobra clutch kit and pro50 shifter from them long time ago, 50k miles later, I don't baby the Junk Pyle, and still going strong.
Of course can't compare the prices then vrs now, think I paid 1200+- shipped for the lot.

90sickfox · Nov 2, 2022

Upgrade to a t5Z. Like 5L5 said, I rarely open up a t5 nowadays that doesn't need atleast a slider. When the synchrony go bad they start tearing up the dog teeth on the gears and the parts inside the sliders. Starting with a 1100 price it could easily inflate close to 2k. If they guy is hard for the shop owner to get intouch with now he'll be just as hard to catch up with when your trans is apart and additional parts are on order. Order a new one and be done. T5s are holding their value....especially a t5z.

If you hve the money I'd spend the money and get a tko600 or tkx from Hanlon Motorsports. It depends on what you want to do with the car though. My turbo 331 has a TKO600 from them and it's been holding up great.

Fir a mild street car ( under 350hp ) the t5z will be fine. The t5 and t5z can live above 350hp but it takes driving on pins and needles to get them to last. The TKO600 or TKX give room to grow.

AnthonyA1234 · Nov 2, 2022

Mustang5L5 said:
Popping out of gear might suggest an issue with the actual engagement teeth of the gears themselves

$1150 is pricey for just bearings and the wearable parts for the synchros, but those kits have gotten up there in price and are now in the $400-500 range for just those parts. So $500-600ish is a bit on the high side for labor, but i guess that's to be expected for a trans shop. The issues is the hard parts like gears and synchro sliders are NOT part of that basic rebuild kit, so if he tears that all apart and finds the gears themselves are damaged, that will drive the price up. You really need an inspection first before knowing the total carnage. MOST of the T5's i've pulled apart with any sort of mileage on them have always had damage to some of the hard parts, particularly the 1-2 slider. Estimate each new hard part in the $100-200 range. Needless to say, I would expect that $1150 quote to go up a bit if additional wear is found.

A T-5Z is a $2K direct replacement. It has some slight upgrades but it's brand spanking new.

M-7003-Z is $1950 from various sources. Some with free or very cheap shipping. I would purchase based on who offers the best warranty deal with the trans

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-7003-Z

You can also do a TKX swap, but that will be more expensive

Is t-5z and m-7003-Z the same thing or are those different?

Also what are the upgrades between a normal t5 and a t5 z?

I’m most likely going to go with the t5 z as I don’t plan on adding a lot of power to this car any time soon.

Btw thanks for all the input guys I really appreciate it.

AeroCoupe · Nov 2, 2022

The World Class T5 in your car has the following gear ratios:
1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Rev
3.35 1.93 1.26 1.00 0.68 3.15

The Z-Spec T5 has the following gear ratios:
1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Rev
2.95 1.94 1.34 1.00 0.63 2.76

The Z-Spec may come with an 8 tooth speedo gear so if your T5 has a 7 tooth you will need to swap those out which will mean pulling the tail housing which is not a big deal. The Z-Spec bolts into your car and you just move on.

All of the Tremec TKO or TKX trans missions have 26 spline input shafts with the exception of the 3550 (out of production) and one of the TKX's which have 10 spline. Info is here (click on technical specifications):

https://www.tremec.com/menu.php?m=184

So if you decide to go with one of these you may need to get a new clutch plate if the brand of clutch you are currently running offers just the disc. You will also need a TKO / TKX bell housing which is the same as the Ford SROD transmission bell housing (what I run on my TKO in the Bird). You will also need a shifter if you do not like the one that may or may not come with the new TKO / TKX (not sure if all of them come with one or not).

Me, I would pull the exiting trans, get the Hanlon video and rebuild it myself. I figure the master rebuild kit from Hanlon is about $450 which leaves me right at $550 in parts before I get to half of what a new one costs which is my limit on a rebuild. You can tear the trans down and inspect the parts prior to buying the rebuild kit and that will allow you to develop a parts list and go see what it is going to cost. These are not rocket science to tear down and build and there are a few guys on here that are really good and it and would be good resources to bounce stuff off of. However, if this is not your strong suite then I do understand and you are either going to pay a guy to rebuild it or buy new.

I am not sure how close you are to Atlanta (saw you are in FL) but Speace-ATL over on the Corral is an active member there and he is a absolute wizzard at building them and may be close to you. If you are not a member over on the Corral I can PM him and get his contact info for you.

AnthonyA1234 · Nov 2, 2022

Another thing

AeroCoupe said:
The World Class T5 in your car has the following gear ratios:
1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Rev
3.35 1.93 1.26 1.00 0.68 3.15

The Z-Spec T5 has the following gear ratios:
1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Rev
2.95 1.94 1.34 1.00 0.63 2.76

The Z-Spec may come with an 8 tooth speedo gear so if your T5 has a 7 tooth you will need to swap those out which will mean pulling the tail housing which is not a big deal. The Z-Spec bolts into your car and you just move on.

All of the Tremec TKO or TKX trans missions have 26 spline input shafts with the exception of the 3550 (out of production) and one of the TKX's which have 10 spline. Info is here (click on technical specifications):

https://www.tremec.com/menu.php?m=184

So if you decide to go with one of these you may need to get a new clutch plate if the brand of clutch you are currently running offers just the disc. You will also need a TKO / TKX bell housing which is the same as the Ford SROD transmission bell housing (what I run on my TKO in the Bird). You will also need a shifter if you do not like the one that may or may not come with the new TKO / TKX (not sure if all of them come with one or not).

Me, I would pull the exiting trans, get the Hanlon video and rebuild it myself. I figure the master rebuild kit from Hanlon is about $450 which leaves me right at $550 in parts before I get to half of what a new one costs which is my limit on a rebuild. You can tear the trans down and inspect the parts prior to buying the rebuild kit and that will allow you to develop a parts list and go see what it is going to cost. These are not rocket science to tear down and build and there are a few guys on here that are really good and it and would be good resources to bounce stuff off of. However, if this is not your strong suite then I do understand and you are either going to pay a guy to rebuild it or buy new.

I am not sure how close you are to Atlanta (saw you are in FL) but Speace-ATL over on the Corral is an active member there and he is a absolute wizzard at building them and may be close to you. If you are not a member over on the Corral I can PM him and get his contact info for you.

ok yea great I’m a member on the corral so I’ll send him a message to get some more info.

Are the gear ratios the only difference or does the t5z have any other hardware improvements over the t5. I see on summits website it says that it has a short throw shifter.

Mustang5L5 · Nov 2, 2022

AnthonyA1234 said:
Another thing

ok yea great I’m a member on the corral so I’ll send him a message to get some more info.

Are the gear ratios the only difference or does the t5z have any other hardware improvements over the t5. I see on summits website it says that it has a short throw shifter.

Yes, there is some hardware improvement. As a result, the torque rating increases slightly.

85.5-89 T-5 was rated for 265 ft-lbs
90-93 was 300 ft-lbs.

The T5z (M-7003-Z) trans is rated for 330 ft-lbs.

AnthonyA1234 · Nov 2, 2022

Mustang5L5 said:
Yes, there is some hardware improvement. As a result, the torque rating increases slightly.

85.5-89 T-5 was rated for 265 ft-lbs
90-93 was 300 ft-lbs.

The T5z (M-7003-Z) trans is rated for 330 ft-lbs.

So this is the dyno graph my car had in the glovebox when I bought it. Accounting for 15% drivetrain loss that’s about 316 hp and 350 lbs ft of torque. I don’t run slicks, don’t take it to the strip, and rarely launch it. The car has 275/40 nitto nt555s in the rear. Just some fun spirited driving. Will that be an issue for the t5z?

LILCBRA · Nov 2, 2022

My Cobra II's 302 puts out similar numbers. I run a 94-95 T5 with no issues, so I'd suspect that the Z wouldn't give you issues either.

AnthonyA1234 · Nov 2, 2022

Ok great that’s good to hear.
In regards to the speedo gear like AeroCoupe mentioned, does anyone know which speedo gear would be right for my car with the t5z? It has 3.73 gears.

BlakeusMaximus · Nov 2, 2022

I bought a brand new Z trans from Summit in 2017, I think it was. $1800-1900 shipped. Smooth as butter.

LILCBRA · Nov 2, 2022

AnthonyA1234 said:
Ok great that’s good to hear.
In regards to the speedo gear like AeroCoupe mentioned, does anyone know which speedo gear would be right for my car with the t5z? It has 3.73 gears.

You should be able to reuse the gear that is on your current transmission tailshaft. If not, here's a calculator so you can enter specifics and figure out what you need.

Mustang Speedometer Gear Calculator - LMR.com

Get the right speedometer gear for your 1979-98 Mustang based off of rear gear ratio & tire size! No guessing with this Mustang Speedometer Gear Calculator!

lmr.com

AeroCoupe · Nov 2, 2022

The 331 in my Coupe puts down 451 fyhp / 411 ft-lbs and the WC T5 handles it fine. I do have the cluster gear support plate which is supposed to help a lot. The car has never seen slicks but I do run Nitto 555R's. So I would say that a quality built WC T5 will handle what you have currently and a little more as long as you do not dead hook it on slicks and do not power shift.

My suggestion would be to put a 6 tooth (black) drive gear on the tailshaft of the transmission and then you will have to determine the speedo gear (driven gear) tooth count based on your rear gears (you mentioned 3.73's) and the size of your rear tire. The calculator mentioned above is a really good one and LMR sells all of this stuff.

AnthonyA1234 · Nov 2, 2022

AeroCoupe said:
The 331 in my Coupe puts down 451 fyhp / 411 ft-lbs and the WC T5 handles it fine. I do have the cluster gear support plate which is supposed to help a lot. The car has never seen slicks but I do run Nitto 555R's. So I would say that a quality built WC T5 will handle what you have currently and a little more as long as you do not dead hook it on slicks and do not power shift.

My suggestion would be to put a 6 tooth (black) drive gear on the tailshaft of the transmission and then you will have to determine the speedo gear (driven gear) tooth count based on your rear gears (you mentioned 3.73's) and the size of your rear tire. The calculator mentioned above is a really good one and LMR sells all of this stuff.

What’s the benefit of the 6 tooth over the 7 or 8 that may come with the new transmission?

Mustang5L5 · Nov 2, 2022

T5's are hit or miss. Some folks beat the snot out of them with modded cars, and other guys have busted them with stock 5.0's.

Generally, longevity can be attributed to how you drive. Launching on slicks, dumping the clutch, power shifting, etc can lead to a shorter life. A higher HP combo can do quite well if you avoid the above.

I run a TFS headed combo with a 90-93 T5. I'm not expecting any issues really given that I don't really launch the car, at all.

AeroCoupe · Nov 2, 2022

So the difference between the 6, 7, & 8 tooth drive gear (the one on the tailshaft) is that the higher the number the higher the number you need on the driven gear (the speedo gear on the VSS) as the rear gear gets deeper. So when you have an 8 tooth drive gear, 3.73's rear gears, and a 275/40R17 tire you need a 23 tooth driven gear that the teeth will shear off in about a mile of driving and if you have a 7 tooth drive gear then you will need a 21 tooth driven gear which the teeth will shear off at some really inconvient time. So if you run a 6 tooth drive gear in the same setup then you only need an 18 tooth driven gear which will last just about forever. Basic speedo gear stuff...

T5 questions, replace vs rebuild

AnthonyA1234

AnthonyA1234

Mstng93SSP

You have a nice rear end there Dave.

TOOLOW91

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands

AnthonyA1234

AeroCoupe

lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

AnthonyA1234

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

AnthonyA1234

Attachments

LILCBRA

I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air

AnthonyA1234

BlakeusMaximus

Still got to try a little lube on my speedo head

LILCBRA

I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air

Mustang Speedometer Gear Calculator - LMR.com

AeroCoupe

lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

AnthonyA1234

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

AeroCoupe

lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

Similar threads

T5 questions, replace vs rebuild

You have a nice rear end there Dave.

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands

lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

Attachments

I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air

Still got to try a little lube on my speedo head

I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air

lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

Similar threads

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