Talked into the heads

Ok 185's are TOO big..all heads are bolt ons...but there is supporting componenets your going to need..and yes decent rockers and push rods are some of them. If you're going to buy a MAF calibrated for injectors that are too small..then "next yr" as you said you will have to buy ANOTHER MAF calibrated for the 24pounders your going to need. So upgrading what you need now will infact save you money later on...plus while the cars down is a perfect time for the fuel pump swap, since your stocker is not going to be up to snuff for the higher fuel demands. You will also need to look into a fuel pressure regulator for tuning..also something you WILL need.
 
sounds like heads are more work than everyone talks about- lol - the word overwhelming was what i was looking for. I can go without the roller rockers at first to get it running though? Because I don't wanna have to buy them yet, i just wanna get it running, and than I'll do the fuel system, and recalibrate the Mass Air Meter, than I'll get the roller rockers, but right now, I just can barely afford the heads themselves. Than the pushrods, their probably like 100 bucks easy lol DAMNIT i know RR's are over 200 FOCK!! lol
Paul Perreca
 
well, i cant find any 6.7 or 6.75 pushrods in summit, where did you get yours?? And what is your combo, because maybe i need a diff size - does cam size matter w/ the pushrods size? its .498 lift - you all know that - and everything else is stock, i'm not gonna do the RR's cuz i just cant afford that at all - the pushrods are literally gonna put me over the edge....
Paul Perreca
 
Then maybe you should save a little before you do it, then you won't have to tear it down and do it again latter on...I'm not sure the stock rockers will work on your heads..and if they do, they certainly are not ideal.
 
super302 said:
custom cam would help, but not necessary, also might as well have that intake ported

The TW heads are awesome, heard nothing but good about them :nice:

I agree, my Friends buddy wanted to sell me a set of Twisted Wedge heads, but I didn't have the money at the time. :bang:

I did get the 70mm TB, and 70mm EGR spacer from him for $90 though.

I would buy the TW new. Also are you going to invest in good Roller Rockers? Either Scorpion, or Crane etc...? :shrug:
 
You will have to do roller rockers, seeing as how the heads are already set up for them straight out of the box. RRs also make slighty more power than the other types. The E-cam's lift w/ 1.6 rr will clear stock pistons. yes, you will need new pushrods. i went w/ 6.75" (.5" more that stock) Part number TFS-21406750 on www.summitracing.com I dont think you will melt the heads froma cooling system problem, if so, its a VERY LARGE problem. Dont get AFR 185s unless you plan on porting the intake and getting a bigger cam, at least the TFS stage 1. AFR 165s would suit you fine. Any other questions?
 
yea the AFR 165s, do i need to buy new rr's and pushrods for them as well? If not, i will go w/ them because it will be cheaper, RR's and Pushrods will put me well over 300 more than I wanted to spend...
Paul Perreca
 
How about the Edelbrock Heads, do i need Pushrods and Roller Rockers for them as well?? GT-40 Y?? I just wanna beable to put the new heads on in place of the old ones - nothing else, but if i have to i will, but i dont want to..
Paul Perreca

I wouldnt mind using the edelbrock heads...
 
Cylinder head removal & replacement.

Plan on 3 days to do the job if you haven't done it before.

Day one gets the heads off in 4-6 hours. The A/C Compressor comes off with lines still connected. Mark all the electrical, smog and vacuum lines with tags to help you remember where to re-connect them.

Day two gets all the gasket surfaces scraped off extra clean and the heads dropped off at the machine shop if you are going to have them reconditioned. Time here is another 4-6 hours. Whatever you do, don't skimp on cleaning the gasket surfaces. New gaskets need to seat against bare metal and not the residue left from the old gaskets in order to seal leak free. This is the most time consuming and tiresome part of the job. Look for little things that need to be replaced like the short hose from the thermostat hosing to the water pump, damaged vacuum lines and hose clamps that are rusted or broken.

Day three starts when you get the heads back from the machine shop. This is the time to pick up all the little odd pieces you found needing replacement on your day two inspection/cleanup. Plan on 6-8 hours to reinstall the heads and reconnect everything. Plan on an additional 2 hours to troubleshoot/adjust everything.

Now for some practical tips:

Plan on cutting the thermostat to water pump hose, or removing the thermostat housing. Also plan on removing the distributor to get clearance to remove the intake manifold. Remove #1 spark plug, stick your finger in the spark plug hole and crank. When your finger gets air moving past it, stop cranking. Turn the engine until the timing marks line up with the pointer. Now you can pull the distributor out.

You'll need new head bolts - get ARP bolts ($40) or studs ($93, maybe more). All the bolts get antiseize under the bolt heads, and everything but the short head bolts get it on the threads. You need Teflon pipe dope or ARP sealant to coat the threads of the short head bolts. The short bolts go into the water jacket and will seep coolant if you don't use the sealant.

My favorite trick that saves time and effort is the stay in place gasket. Be sure that you scrape (don't use a wire brush) all the old gasket material off, then clean all the surfaces with acetone or MEK.

When the surfaces are clean, use weather strip adhesive on the head to manifold surface, and on the side of the gasket that mates to the head. Follow the instructions on the tube or can and when it gets tacky, press the gasket down on the head.

Clean the area where the rubber rails mount to the block in front and in the rear with more acetone or MEK and do the same trick with the weather strip adhesive that you did to the heads.

Coat the rubber seals and the gasket area around the water passages with lots of Blue Silicone gasket sealer and put it together. Walla! No leaks and no gaskets that shifted out of place.

If you reuse the injectors from your old setup, a repair kit is available from most auto parts stores if needed. Coat the injector body "O" rings with oil before you use them and everything will slide back together.

For iron heads, clean the combustion chambers with a wire brush in an air or electric drill. I used a scraper for the pistons. I don't like to use the wire brush on pistons because it will remove metal very easily.

Change the oil once you get everything back together. Once the engine is up & running, run it for 1-2 hours and change the oil.

Tools: a good torque wrench is a must have item. A razor blade scraper that holds a single edge razor blade from Home Depot or Ace hardware is another handy thing. Get a Chilton or Haynes shop manual - you'll need it for the bolt torques and patterns. The intake manifold has an especially odd pattern. You'll need access to a timing light to set the timing after you re-stab the distributor.

Consumable parts:
Fuel injector seal kits with 2 O rings and a pintle cap (Borg-Warner P/N 274081) are available at Pep Boys auto parts. Cost is about $2.74 per kit. The pintle caps fit either injectors with a pin sticking out the injector end or 4 with more tiny holes in the injector end. The following are listed at the Borg-Warner site ( http://www.borg-warner.com ) as being resellers of Borg-Warner parts:

http://www.partsplus.com/ or http://www.autovalue.com/ or http://www.pepboys.com/ or http://www.federatedautoparts.com/

Most of the links above have store locators for find a store in your area.

Head gaskets
upper manifold gasket
lower manifold gasket set.
Exhaust manifold gasket set
Rocker cover gaskets - look for the rubber ones with the steel bushings - Summit has them
Short formed hose between thermostat hosing and intake manifold
6 ft 7/64" or 1/8" vacuum hose
2 ft 1/2" heater hose
1 1/2 ft 5/8" heater hose
Blue Silicone sealer
ARP antiseize or equal for the bolts
ARP thread sealer or Teflon pipe dope for the short bolts.
4 each 3/4" hose clamps (spare item in case the old ones are bad)
4 each 1/2" hose clamps (spare item)
 
Looks easy on the screen..but Jrichker you forgot to mention methods to talk yourself down from the roof when you get tired and realize you forgot the one thing that will take 2hours of backtracking to do..not that I've ever done anything like that ;)
 
If this sounds like more than you think you can handle, you can try the thumper heads, his heads are ported E7s and are VERY GOOD! You can also retain you factory lifters, pushrods, the thumper heads are a BOLT ON literally. Plus they are cheaper, and i think they would fit your motor a little better, since its pretty much stock now.
 
jrichker said:
Plan on 3 days to do the job if you haven't done it before.

Day one gets the heads off in 4-6 hours. The A/C Compressor comes off with lines still connected. Mark all the electrical, smog and vacuum lines with tags to help you remember where to re-connect them.

Day two gets all the gasket surfaces scraped off extra clean and the heads dropped off at the machine shop if you are going to have them reconditioned. Time here is another 4-6 hours. Whatever you do, don't skimp on cleaning the gasket surfaces. New gaskets need to seat against bare metal and not the residue left from the old gaskets in order to seal leak free. This is the most time consuming and tiresome part of the job. Look for little things that need to be replaced like the short hose from the thermostat hosing to the water pump, damaged vacuum lines and hose clamps that are rusted or broken.

Day three starts when you get the heads back from the machine shop. This is the time to pick up all the little odd pieces you found needing replacement on your day two inspection/cleanup. Plan on 6-8 hours to reinstall the heads and reconnect everything. Plan on an additional 2 hours to troubleshoot/adjust everything.

Now for some practical tips:

Plan on cutting the thermostat to water pump hose, or removing the thermostat housing. Also plan on removing the distributor to get clearance to remove the intake manifold. Remove #1 spark plug, stick your finger in the spark plug hole and crank. When your finger gets air moving past it, stop cranking. Turn the engine until the timing marks line up with the pointer. Now you can pull the distributor out.

You'll need new head bolts - get ARP bolts ($40) or studs ($93, maybe more). All the bolts get antiseize under the bolt heads, and everything but the short head bolts get it on the threads. You need Teflon pipe dope or ARP sealant to coat the threads of the short head bolts. The short bolts go into the water jacket and will seep coolant if you don't use the sealant.

My favorite trick that saves time and effort is the stay in place gasket. Be sure that you scrape (don't use a wire brush) all the old gasket material off, then clean all the surfaces with acetone or MEK.

When the surfaces are clean, use weather strip adhesive on the head to manifold surface, and on the side of the gasket that mates to the head. Follow the instructions on the tube or can and when it gets tacky, press the gasket down on the head.

Clean the area where the rubber rails mount to the block in front and in the rear with more acetone or MEK and do the same trick with the weather strip adhesive that you did to the heads.

Coat the rubber seals and the gasket area around the water passages with lots of Blue Silicone gasket sealer and put it together. Walla! No leaks and no gaskets that shifted out of place.

If you reuse the injectors from your old setup, a repair kit is available from most auto parts stores if needed. Coat the injector body "O" rings with oil before you use them and everything will slide back together.

For iron heads, clean the combustion chambers with a wire brush in an air or electric drill. I used a scraper for the pistons. I don't like to use the wire brush on pistons because it will remove metal very easily.

Change the oil once you get everything back together. Once the engine is up & running, run it for 1-2 hours and change the oil.

Tools: a good torque wrench is a must have item. A razor blade scraper that holds a single edge razor blade from Home Depot or Ace hardware is another handy thing. Get a Chilton or Haynes shop manual - you'll need it for the bolt torques and patterns. The intake manifold has an especially odd pattern. You'll need access to a timing light to set the timing after you re-stab the distributor.

Consumable parts:
Fuel injector seal kits with 2 O rings and a pintle cap (Borg-Warner P/N 274081) are available at Pep Boys auto parts. Cost is about $2.74 per kit. The pintle caps fit either injectors with a pin sticking out the injector end or 4 with more tiny holes in the injector end. The following are listed at the Borg-Warner site ( http://www.borg-warner.com ) as being resellers of Borg-Warner parts:

http://www.partsplus.com/ or http://www.autovalue.com/ or http://www.pepboys.com/ or http://www.federatedautoparts.com/

Most of the links above have store locators for find a store in your area.

Head gaskets
upper manifold gasket
lower manifold gasket set.
Exhaust manifold gasket set
Rocker cover gaskets - look for the rubber ones with the steel bushings - Summit has them
Short formed hose between thermostat hosing and intake manifold
6 ft 7/64" or 1/8" vacuum hose
2 ft 1/2" heater hose
1 1/2 ft 5/8" heater hose
Blue Silicone sealer
ARP antiseize or equal for the bolts
ARP thread sealer or Teflon pipe dope for the short bolts.
4 each 3/4" hose clamps (spare item in case the old ones are bad)
4 each 1/2" hose clamps (spare item)
rocker covers? never heard of them.......oh do you mean valve cover gaskets? :D
 
Paul Perreca said:
Cobra Upper Lower
70mm throttlebody
76mm C&L Mass air
E303 Camshaft
UD pulleys
mac headers
o/r H
Flows

Cobra may be a bit on the restrictive side, not the end of the world, but an rpm or typhoon copy would be better.

70mm TB, perfect
76c&l, don't you dare, get an 80mm pro m
E303, if you are doing this once and once only, contact someone that knows custom cams
Mac headers, Do you read anything on this forum?????? LOL. Get something full flanged equal length, anything but mac.

Also as mentioned above, get the street heats, which are the same heads but better springs.

Go with stud mount rockers regardless of the heads you use, pedestals don't withstand high lift very well.
 
well first off, the engine isn't gonna be in the car, i have a complete shortblock, with everything (including cam) from the bottom up to the pistons, I will be taking out stock cam and putting in the E-303, (probably not only gonna do this once, not making a badass racecar, just a much more peppy one) I wanna get those 6.750 pushrods, and a set of TFTW to top that off, now there shouldnt be any gasket scraping in my case, because theres never been gaskets on my block, or the bran new heads, or the cobra intake. (Other things like water pump i know... but on our topic..)

Second...
Do you really consider .498 from the E cam High Lift?? I've seen .625 or maybe higher, i considered that High, i consider the E mild... but like i said, i really am not sure...

third....
What difference is pedestal mount? Why are they better than stud mount or why won't they withstand a measly E cam??

THANKS GUYS, you've been very very helpful, i'm feeling better now, but probably because i am starting to get over the initial "SHOCK" of finding out how much more money i need to save... It shall be done!!!!
Paul Perreca

Keep in mind, this wil be my daily driver if that makes any diff...

See, i dont like to go through the trouble of shipping and handling those heavy ass heads, cuz i believe when you get THUMPERS, they need a core or something..
 
Make sure you GET CORRECT VALVETRAIN PARTS! Match them and check and double check the ****... If you dont you will bend pushrods, bind springs and even worse, trash you pistons.