TFS twisted wedge V AFR 165 heads

90mustangGT · Sep 21, 2005

The TFS TW heads are larger heads than the AFR 165's. However bigger isn't always better. I think it is a proven fact that AFR 165's are the best head for a 302-306 street application. 331-347 the 165's would be a little small.

The AFR's are better out of the box, but the TFS's have lots of growing room. I have seen where TW's have been massivly ported while it seems everyone with AFR's just sells them and upgrades. The resale on AFR's is very very good.

Another head I saw that are very good and compare very well to the AFR and TFS series is Brodix ST50's.

Daggar · Sep 21, 2005

stang302v8 said:
well i think im gonna butter my bread with the afr 165...58cc sounds better than 61cc

I don't think you'll be dissatisfied with either one.

bluevenom867 · Sep 21, 2005

Look Here

Down down a little on the first page,you will see my graph from the manufactors web sites.

bluevenom867 · Sep 21, 2005

Opps,I looked at the chart and I dont have the info for the AFR 165's.

I will post that info seperatly here.

But from what you can see,the TFS heads can hange with the 185cc heads.And are actualy closer to the AFR 165's than the 185's.

bluevenom867 · Sep 21, 2005

AFR 165cc Emission Legal heads
(165ccIntake/69cc Exhaust,1.90 Intake/1.60 Exhaust)

Valve Lift (Inch's) Intake (CFM) Exhaust (CFM)

.100" N/A N/A
.200" 123 118
.300" 179 153
.400" 225 178
.500" 243 185
.600" 245 191

AFR Note: exhuast w/ 1 3/4 pipe,bore size 4.060
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFR 165cc Non-Emission heads
(165ccIntake/69cc Exhaust,1.90 Intake/1.60 Exhaust)

Valve Lift (Inch's) Intake (CFM) Exhaust (CFM)

.100" N/A N/A
.200" 123 118
.300" 179 153
.400" 225 178
.500" 243 185
.600" 245 191

AFR note: exhuast w/ 1 3/4 pipe,bore size 4.060

CoupedUp · Sep 22, 2005

bluevenom867 said:
AFR 165cc Emission Legal heads
(165ccIntake/69cc Exhaust,1.90 Intake/1.60 Exhaust)

Valve Lift (Inch's) Intake (CFM) Exhaust (CFM)

.100" N/A N/A
.200" 123 118
.300" 179 153
.400" 225 178
.500" 243 185
.600" 245 191

AFR Note: exhuast w/ 1 3/4 pipe,bore size 4.060
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFR 165cc Non-Emission heads
(165ccIntake/69cc Exhaust,1.90 Intake/1.60 Exhaust)

Valve Lift (Inch's) Intake (CFM) Exhaust (CFM)

.100" N/A N/A
.200" 123 118
.300" 179 153
.400" 225 178
.500" 243 185
.600" 245 191

AFR note: exhuast w/ 1 3/4 pipe,bore size 4.060

The only issue I have with these charts is incrementation.
For example, it only jumps 2 cfm points on the intake from .500" - .600" lift ..... but what if it was at the max 245cfm at .525? That tight breakdown is not listed here.

Sure 25 thousandths incrementation is less common then 50 thousandths in charts, but I guarantee the engineers break it down a lot further than that.

Of course having a cam thats lobes spend a good length of time in the high cfm area will fill those holes better ... but then the valvetrain goes further away from stock and reliability starts going out the window ... oh well, it's all 'bout speed anyway

aleborjas · Sep 22, 2005

stang302v8 said:
well i think im gonna butter my bread with the afr 165...58cc sounds better than 61cc

men dont think more go with AFR you will get lots of power!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dbeck002 · Sep 22, 2005

AFRs are just a better head, why do you think they cost more?

Power doesnt only have to do with flow, other factors involved that make AFRs superior. TW heads are a good all around head but top dogs are AFRs.

IntenseBlue · Sep 22, 2005

5spd GT said:
Intense Blue - I'm sure the 331 vs. 306 change those flow number characteristics

It was done on a flow bench. Motor size doesn't matter on a flow bench.

Look at it this way, 165s and TW aren't in the same class. TW heads are in the same class as the AFR 185s. Twisted Wedge heads are better than 165s though. I would definately go with the Twisted Wedge, even more so it I was going to rev past 6000rpm.

IntenseBlue · Sep 22, 2005

Dbeck002 said:
AFRs are just a better head, why do you think they cost more?

Power doesnt only have to do with flow, other factors involved that make AFRs superior. TW heads are a good all around head but top dogs are AFRs.

They cost more because they come CNC ported.

CoupedUp · Sep 22, 2005

IF the TW's were such a superior head, then Trick Flow would be able to sell them for an equivalent price to the AFR165's.

Yes, the AFR's cost what they do from the additional labor/supplies etc from CNC work, but it is also because they are an awesome head. They are completely comfortable with selling them to you at that price.

I don't knock either, but with a 302/6 and an F cam, an AFR165 head is best for the combo.

stang302v8 · Sep 22, 2005

alright thanks for the info

87AODGT · Sep 22, 2005

how about the new twisted wedges that are cnc ported to 185cc? I hear those piss all over the afr 185cc heads, but they do cost a little more, I was considering them for my setup

5spd GT · Sep 22, 2005

IntenseBlue said:
It was done on a flow bench. Motor size doesn't matter on a flow bench.

Look at it this way, 165s and TW aren't in the same class. TW heads are in the same class as the AFR 185s. Twisted Wedge heads are better than 165s though. I would definately go with the Twisted Wedge, even more so it I was going to rev past 6000rpm.

Look below at your quote...I'll highlight (bold) a couple things for you

IntenseBlue said:
331, 1 5/8" LTs, Comp xe264 cam, RPM air gap intake, and Speed Demon 650 carb, Twisted Wedge heads

Peak Airflow: TW, 248/182
Average Airflow: TW 305.88
Peak HP: TW 438
Peak TQ: TW 443
Average HP: TW 335
Average TQ: TW 408.2
Compression: TW 10.6

CHP 306, 1 5/8" LTs, Comp xe264 cam, Performer RPM air gap intake, Speed Demon 650 carb, AFR 165s

Peak Airflow: 240/200
Average Airflow: 293.97
Peak HP: 396
Peak TQ: 342
Average HP: 289
Average TQ: 354
Compression: 9.65

Alright, it appears your showing some bias here. You show the hp and tq numbers shown in red. Do you not think the numbers are higher for the TW headed equipped car because of the 331 Just as well, look at the 1 point increase in compression with the 331 shown in blue.

So why were the engine's mentioned if you were just trying to point out flow numbers shown in orange.

Your trying to persway a potential buyer with those horsepower numbers when the compression is a whole point higher along with being a stroker over a 306...why?

5spd GT · Sep 22, 2005

87AODGT said:
how about the new twisted wedges that are cnc ported to 185cc? I hear those piss all over the afr 185cc heads, but they do cost a little more, I was considering them for my setup

The urination will be kept to a minimum...they will outflow by a bit but they cost a bit more.

Daggar · Sep 22, 2005

87AODGT said:
how about the new twisted wedges that are cnc ported to 185cc? I hear those piss all over the afr 185cc heads, but they do cost a little more, I was considering them for my setup

You got a link to these things? I've not seen them yet. Are they emissions legal?

IntenseBlue · Sep 22, 2005

5spd GT said:
Look below at your quote...I'll highlight (bold) a couple things for you

Alright, it appears your showing some bias here. You show the hp and tq numbers shown in red. Do you not think the numbers are higher for the TW headed equipped car because of the 331 Just as well, look at the 1 point increase in compression with the 331 shown in blue.

So why were the engine's mentioned if you were just trying to point out flow numbers shown in orange.

Your trying to persway a potential buyer with those horsepower numbers when the compression is a whole point higher along with being a stroker over a 306...why?

Potential is why. Twisted Wedges are slightly better out of the box. Not only that, but they'll go way farther than AFR 165s will.

I wasn't using the horsepower numbers as a persuasion, just offering some helpful info. More flow doesn't always mean more power.

bluevenom867 · Sep 22, 2005

5spd GT said:
Look below at your quote...I'll highlight (bold) a couple things for you

Alright, it appears your showing some bias here. You show the hp and tq numbers shown in red. Do you not think the numbers are higher for the TW headed equipped car because of the 331 Just as well, look at the 1 point increase in compression with the 331 shown in blue.

So why were the engine's mentioned if you were just trying to point out flow numbers shown in orange.

Your trying to persway a potential buyer with those horsepower numbers when the compression is a whole point higher along with being a stroker over a 306...why?

Did he pull thous charts from the MM&FF head test?

stang302v8 · Sep 22, 2005

im wandering if i should stick with the f cam...lots of people are telling me there are better cams available

FordGuy88 · Sep 22, 2005

stang302v8 said:
thanks for the info, but the tfs heads have 61cc and the afr 165 has 58cc...so im thinking i'd get better compression, not to mention the tfs heads flow their best at a higher lift than the afr's, so i'd get to peak power sooner. im jsut curious because i have no idea on which head actually flows better, how do you know that the tfs flows better anyhow?

The thing is, is that if you would want to go with a higher compression then you could just mill the TFS heads.

TFS twisted wedge V AFR 165 heads

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