The $20K V8 thread

[CSUSB_Coyote]

You are correct that the incremental manufacturing cost for things like V8 engines and options are very small and are high profit items.

But, your numbers are a bit off. $500 or more difference for the V8 engine would be more like it. The 4.0 SOHC is already made in very large volumes as it is used in the Explorer, Ranger, etc. so the 4.0 V6 is a low cost engine.

But with that said, I think you guys are dreaming if you think Ford will really have an under $20K V8 Mustang in 2005 (sticker price). Ford will sell every V8 GT, 2005 Mustang they are able to build for $25K or more. Why in the world would they want to give them away at less than $20K?

I'm sorry, I stated once the 3 valve motor is introduced to other lines the difference will be minimal. I have bought motors for other companies in the past. The manufacture cost, in volume, is negligible. A difference of $500 is a joke when you purchase, power plants, in terms of 10K's.

 

[ThRippeR]

Die 20k V8 Thread, Die.

 

[siege]

I was watching the Ford VP of Product Creation on speed channel this weekend (can't remember the show). The piece was taped before NAIAS but he clearly said the V6 was under 20k and the V8 was the lowest price V8 sports car (or something like that) either way it was obvious that a V8 Mustang under 20k wasn't in the cards.

he said it was the best performing v6 sports car under $20k and the best "bang for the buck" v8 available. and of course he stumbled all through that like an idiot. I don't think they really wanna come out and say "hey you can get a v8 for 20 grand with this one!" just yet (plenty of 04 gt's still on the lots). btw, it was "detroit autoline" (I posted a thread on this a few days ago - they recorded it before the show even started obviously)

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it or not (skimmed, but haven't read all the posts), but... the V6 and GT are both going to have the same transmissions and the same 8.8" rear end. So logically speaking, the only thing that has to be changed out to support a V8 in the V6 base would be the motor and the front suspension. I could see that being done for $2-3k easily. It's not nearly as monstrous a job as it would have been with the current Mustang (where you have to change the rear, axle, and transmission as well).

I'm not saying I expect a $20k V8, just that it's not so technically difficult to do as some have suggested.

Well you're wrong on that one, sorry.

The V-8 powered GT is equipped with a rugged Tremec 3650 gearbox; the V-6 cars get a Tremec T-5 manual. Both have been improved for shift quality and efficiency. For example, they now use a flange coupling instead of a splined drive with the driveshaft that results in better balance and reduced lash. An all-new shift linkage is designed to provide quick engagement of the gears, producing a solid feel and none of the "notchiness" apparent on some previous Mustangs.

and...

In both automatic and manual transmission cars, Mustang GT models use a two-piece driveshaft that can withstand higher engine speeds and torque. V-6 models use a slip-in-tube driveshaft.

The rear axle ratio is 3.55:1 for the Mustang GT when equipped with a manual transmission. All other Mustangs use a 3.31:1 final drive ratio. The Mustang GT comes standard with a traction-lock 8.8-inch rear axle for smooth launches and better grip on loose or slippery surfaces.
Mustang V-6 models use 7.5-inch ring and pinion gears. All axles have a robust ring-and-pinion gear and feature a stiff differential case to reduce flex during cornering.

please read this if you haven't already. and if you have, read it again
http://www.stangnet.com/2005fordmustang/index.html

 

[Ron Jeremy]

Hyundais have an EXCELLENT warranty. I have owned 3 within the last 7 years and they are EXCELLENT cars. No problems whatsoever with these cars.

 

[SWortham]

I saw the video of the Car And Driver coverage of the NAIAS -- http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?intAsvPageCurrent=5&section_id=31&article_id=7671

And like you guys, I was shocked to hear that they are offering a V8 for under $20K. And I was skeptical too. However, this guy actually says that, "The base price of the GT will be under $20K." But you guys seem to be saying that there will be a barebone V8 'Stang that does not have the GT package -- and that's what will be selling for under $20K. In any case, it sounds like there will be a very inexpensive V8 Mustang coming out. And so I will probably become a regular contributor of this forum in 2007 when I get mine.

EDIT -- Oh, and I don't see how this is relevant, but I currently have an '02 Hyundai Elantra, and they are excellent cars. But just not sporty enough. I need something more like the '97 Mustang I used to have.

 

[peyotesands]

Hyundais have an EXCELLENT warranty. I have owned 3 within the last 7 years and they are EXCELLENT cars. No problems whatsoever with these cars.

except they're dorking looking...

 

[SWortham]

except they're dorking looking...

They're not bad for spending less than $12K brand new...
http://www.gldomain.com/elantra/images/12-14-2003/Pict0006_800px.jpg

I still think that any new Mustang looks better. I can't wait 'til I can afford one again.

 

[351CJ]

I'm sorry, I stated once the 3 valve motor is introduced to other lines the difference will be minimal. I have bought motors for other companies in the past. The manufacture cost, in volume, is negligible. A difference of $500 is a joke when you purchase, power plants, in terms of 10K's.

If you were comparing a 390 Ford V8 to a 428 Ford V8, I would agree with you that there was a very minimal difference in manufacturing cost, on the order of your $50 figure.

However, you are way off base suggesting that a 4.6L 3V, V8 engine costs only $50 more to manufacture than the 4.0 V6. I purchase materials for equipment we build and I guarantee you that just the EXTRA metal that goes in the block and head castings on the 4.6 V8 costs more than $50 over what the V6 castings cost.

Now let's add in 2 more rods, 12 more valves, 12 more lifters, 12 more rocker arms, 2 more main bearings & rod bearings, 2 more spark plugs, 8 coil packs instead of a single coil V6 setup, 2 more injectors, 2 more wrist pins, 2 more pistons, 4 more rod bolts, 8 more main bolts, the VCT control mechanisms & sensors and a whole buch of other pieces I haven't even listed.

I have it on good authority that the VCT mechanisms alone have a manufacturing cost close to $200. Yes their costs will come down as volume goes up, but you're comparing apples to oranges.

I'm not trying to be a pain here, but you are doing a major dis-service to StangNet Forum participants by trying to suggest that the 4.6L V8 cost only $50 more to manufacture than the 4.0 V6.

 

[Cobrra]

Ok that statement could also be taken in 2 parts. Because the V-6 could be described by ford as the best RWD perf. car under $20k. And the gt could be taken as the most affordable 3000hp car made. Not to be a buzz kill but. People need to look for ALL the info. Not just what they want to see. This is also from the same website.

The 2005 Mustang GT (top) is the most attainable 300-horsepower V-8 performance car on the market, and its V-6 Coupe stablemate is the best rear-wheel-drive car under $20,000.

I am sure you are right. Everyone is assuming that he is saying that the GT is, when in fact he is refering to both cars, not just the GT.

 

[CSUSB_Coyote]

If you were comparing a 390 Ford V8 to a 428 Ford V8, I would agree with you that there was a very minimal difference in manufacturing cost, on the order of your $50 figure.

However, you are way off base suggesting that a 4.6L 3V, V8 engine costs only $50 more to manufacture than the 4.0 V6. I purchase materials for equipment we build and I guarantee you that just the EXTRA metal that goes in the block and head castings on the 4.6 V8 costs more than $50 over what the V6 castings cost.

Now let's add in 2 more rods, 12 more valves, 12 more lifters, 12 more rocker arms, 2 more main bearings & rod bearings, 2 more spark plugs, 8 coil packs instead of a single coil V6 setup, 2 more injectors, 2 more wrist pins, 2 more pistons, 4 more rod bolts, 8 more main bolts, the VCT control mechanisms & sensors and a whole buch of other pieces I haven't even listed.

I have it on good authority that the VCT mechanisms alone have a manufacturing cost close to $200. Yes their costs will come down as volume goes up, but you're comparing apples to oranges.

I'm not trying to be a pain here, but you are doing a major dis-service to StangNet Forum participants by trying to suggest that the 4.6L V8 cost only $50 more to manufacture than the 4.0 V6.

Well if you buy one or two motors a year I could see $500 difference in the pricing. But, we are talking 40K's 3V 4.6L for Mustang alone, not including various other platforms.
Since I couldn't find the base V6 in a Ford w/ an upgrade to V8 I went to Chevy's website and found their base V6 w/ and upgrade to a V8 is $795 (1500 Silverado). So, what does that number represent? An option price, and as I stated before options are were the money is made with a vehicle. I do not first hand knowledge of what margins Ford puts on their options (Who knows what Ford really pays to build and assemble their power plants in-house). But what I do have is knowledge of what a vehicle manufacture pays for preassembled, (Ford, Chevy, and International) power plants and going from a V6 to a V8 isn't $500.

It doesn’t matter what you or I believe, we all still pay close retail. And I am pretty sure Ford will not produce a new platform GT for under $20K. As I stated before, all the GT is, an option upgrade to a base model Mustang. It’s where the per unit Mustang the money is made and Ford isn’t about to give that up by producing a GT under $20K.

 

[1992 2.3LX]

HERE IS AN IDEA. WRITE FORD A LETTER. Asking the very question that everyone keeps arguing about!!!! They aren't not going to clarify for us!! Damn use some logic people!!!!

 

[skywarp]

Nothing beats the $20K thread. It keeps going and going and.......

 

[SVTdriver]

Need an energizer bunny for this thread. Cause you know it won't stop until Ford puts out all info on all models. And it may not even stop then.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

Beleive it or not, the Hyundai vehicles are equal quality now to the Honda vehicles. And Hyundai Motorcars became the owner of KIA Motorcars. So now these 2 car companies have merged with each other.

Hyundai is coming out with a 4 door ultra-luxury sedan in 2005. It has an 8 cylinder engine it it and looks like the 1992-1999 Lincoln Towncar. It's a really nice looking vehicle. And it's not rounded looking like some other luxury car imports. I forget what the name of this car is but I know that you can see it if you go to the www.hyundai.com website. Hyundai is making some really nicer looking cars than Toyots, Nissan and Honda. And they cost cheaper to buy.

 

[Frazier]

Here is a piece of the Hot Rod mag. article. This sounds more like it!!

"Mustang is about unique, bold American styling," says Mustang Marketing Manager Paul Russell. "It's America's sports car for the masses." The Mustang is also about delivering a high level of performance value to the greatest number of customers at an affordable, attainable price, a notion underscored by the fact that '05 Mustang buyers will be able to option the new car from an under-$20,000 base V-6 with sporty looks and sprightly performance up to a near-$30,000 GT with aggressive styling and performance to match, Russell says.

 

[holler]

hot rod? isn't that a chevy-centric mag? what do they know? anyways, a 20,000 dollar v8 mustang is different then say 20,000 dollar GT mustang

 

[Steeda90GT]

 

[zenboy99]

Besides Motor Trend, Hot Rod was the first magazine to feature the 2005 Mustang. That doesn't seem "chevy-centric" to me. Aslo How many articles has Hot-rod run on the Ford GT and Cobra over the last couple of months? Seems like every issue features one of those cars.

Whats with the whole Hyundai thing??? I must have read the the subject heading wrong.

 

[Stangar]

Beleive it or not, the Hyundai vehicles are equal quality now to the Honda vehicles. And Hyundai Motorcars became the owner of KIA Motorcars. So now these 2 car companies have merged with each other.

Hyundai is coming out with a 4 door ultra-luxury sedan in 2005. It has an 8 cylinder engine it it and looks like the 1992-1999 Lincoln Towncar. It's a really nice looking vehicle. And it's not rounded looking like some other luxury car imports. I forget what the name of this car is but I know that you can see it if you go to the www.hyundai.com website. Hyundai is making some really nicer looking cars than Toyots, Nissan and Honda. And they cost cheaper to buy.

SORRY. I rarely respond but I can't help but call this BS. NO WAY is Hyundai anywhere near the quality of Honda. Only someone that has not driven or looked at both cars could possibly say this. Don't let reality get in the way of your statements.

 

[Stangar]

Oh, . . . . by the way, Ron Jeremy, . . . . you post too much. You're kind of like one of my office workers with diarrea of the mouth, . . . . only on the internet.