The project starts again

tamadrummer88 · May 23, 2006

Well, I have graduated from high school, and now i have the time and money to work on my mustang that has been sitting in my yard for 2 years.

I have on order, a full mustang II suspension with coil-over shocks and springs, and i just got a 429 out of a 71 tbird, that will be going in later, but the real toughie is:

a T-5 out of a 95 GT.

The trans had less than 75k miles, and i got basically everything, the clutch and flywheel, the separation plate, the driveshaft, and the bellhousing. All i need now is the hydraulic clutch and the hanging pedal setup and the T-5 crossmember. Cxan anybody tell me if i am missing something from my list or how hard it will be to swap the T-5. It now has a C4 with manual brakes, drums all around. any ideas for my 429? as i progress on the project (again), ill post pics.

Thanks guys

John

DK832 · May 23, 2006

Plenty of resources like:
http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/classic_mustang.htm

bnickel · May 23, 2006

you can forget about a stock t5 behind a 429. the stock 429 even in t-bird trim produces almost twice as much torque as that t5 is rated for. if you have even a semi sticky tire the first good launch is going to lunch the tranny. either forget the t5 or forget the 429. also, i don't know where you're going to find a bellhousing to put a t5 behind the 429 anyway. do yourself a favor and either get a c6 or a toploader for that 429 or get a basically stock or very mild 5.0 to go with the t5.

GNN60GT500 · May 23, 2006

429+T5= KAAABBBBBBBBBOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMM!!!

Take it from someone who is personally responsible for sending 6 T5s to that junk yard in the sky-

tamadrummer88 · May 23, 2006

bnickel said:
you can forget about a stock t5 behind a 429. the stock 429 even in t-bird trim produces almost twice as much torque as that t5 is rated for. if you have even a semi sticky tire the first good launch is going to lunch the tranny. either forget the t5 or forget the 429. also, i don't know where you're going to find a bellhousing to put a t5 behind the 429 anyway. do yourself a favor and either get a c6 or a toploader for that 429 or get a basically stock or very mild 5.0 to go with the t5.

hmm.....the 429 makes 375 hp and and over 400ft-lbs torque behind the flywheel....i thought that with todays correction standards, the 429 makes like 320 HP and little under 360 FT-lbs torque. What If i replace the internals of the T-5 with stronger internals? The 429 is the motor i was always looking for, I dont want to abandon it now!

John

WantaGT · May 23, 2006

personally, I would really, I mean REALLY listen to what these guys have to say. I'm only 19 and in college and they never steered me wrong in my project. As far as the T5 goes, I've wasted my fair share behind STOCK 5.0's rated at 225 hp and 295 (?) ft/lbs of torque. Behind a 429? Forget about it. Sell the T5 to a 5.0 litre guy and put that towards a different tranny. The G-Force T5 is rated to approximately 600 hp, more than enough, but it also carries a price tag of $2,000. Not to mention the cost of physically getting it to bolt up the the 429.

That being said, I have a buddy with a 55 Ford pickup and a 429/4 speed toploader combo. Very fast and dead realible. You might want to look that route. I just don't see the outcome being worth the cost. just too many headaches....but what do I know?

Wait...even better advice. Build the chassis, get rid of the drums (I have them on my 67 and hardly stop a 289). With a 429 up front you may want power steering to ease parking lot situations and general steering. Rebuild the rear suspension since you seem to have the front under control. Basically build a car that will take power, it's no fun to have even 300 horsepower and be scared because it won't stop or steer.

Thats just my two cents. But i'm a poor college kid so all of my mods are piecemeal. I don't know your budget (even though it seems hefty with the Mustang II front suspension) but I would look at building a well rounded car before building one with a trick motor.

bnickel · May 23, 2006

if you're serious about a 5 speed and the 429 look at getting a tremec tko 600, it's pretty pricey but infinitely better than a t5 and even a g-force t5 in my opinion. the g-force is a great tranny from all i've heard but i still wouldn't trust a t5 of any origin behind a big block. if you are planning on doing any mods to the 429 those hp/tq figures are going to change, just swapping intake, carb and headers will add tons of tq to that 429 so keep that in mind.

did you know that you can install the 429 without going to the MII suspension? it will fit fine without doing anything really but the special swap headers and mounts from www.critesrestorations.com also i really wouldn't recommend the MII anyway, especially with a 429 the factory mustang frame rails that the MII crossmember welds to is just thin sheetmetal and taking away the shock towers and the firewall braces removes all of the support of the front structure.

if you are just doing the MII to get more room for the 429 crites also sells a kit for shaving the shock towers down some to get added room to change the plugs and stuff, but you really don't even need to do that

tamadrummer88 · May 24, 2006

bnickel said:
if you're serious about a 5 speed and the 429 look at getting a tremec tko 600, it's pretty pricey but infinitely better than a t5 and even a g-force t5 in my opinion. the g-force is a great tranny from all i've heard but i still wouldn't trust a t5 of any origin behind a big block. if you are planning on doing any mods to the 429 those hp/tq figures are going to change, just swapping intake, carb and headers will add tons of tq to that 429 so keep that in mind.

did you know that you can install the 429 without going to the MII suspension? it will fit fine without doing anything really but the special swap headers and mounts from www.critesrestorations.com also i really wouldn't recommend the MII anyway, especially with a 429 the factory mustang frame rails that the MII crossmember welds to is just thin sheetmetal and taking away the shock towers and the firewall braces removes all of the support of the front structure.

if you are just doing the MII to get more room for the 429 crites also sells a kit for shaving the shock towers down some to get added room to change the plugs and stuff, but you really don't even need to do that

I understand, but im 18 and also starting college too, so im keeping an eye on my money.

I understand the situation with the 429 and the t5, but im a risk taker, so im gonna see where this trans goes, i just might rebuild it with stronger gears, because in my budget, i have no money for a spare trans. And a auto is not an option.

I was gonna go with the TCP coil-over setup, but i wanted a fully independent suspension, so i decided to go with the MII setup. I am not going against the info of you guys, in fact i appreciate the opinions, im just gonna see where the T-5 goes with the 429.

John

tamadrummer88 · May 24, 2006

WantaGT said:
personally, I would really, I mean REALLY listen to what these guys have to say. I'm only 19 and in college and they never steered me wrong in my project. As far as the T5 goes, I've wasted my fair share behind STOCK 5.0's rated at 225 hp and 295 (?) ft/lbs of torque. Behind a 429? Forget about it. Sell the T5 to a 5.0 litre guy and put that towards a different tranny. The G-Force T5 is rated to approximately 600 hp, more than enough, but it also carries a price tag of $2,000. Not to mention the cost of physically getting it to bolt up the the 429.

That being said, I have a buddy with a 55 Ford pickup and a 429/4 speed toploader combo. Very fast and dead realible. You might want to look that route. I just don't see the outcome being worth the cost. just too many headaches....but what do I know?

Wait...even better advice. Build the chassis, get rid of the drums (I have them on my 67 and hardly stop a 289). With a 429 up front you may want power steering to ease parking lot situations and general steering. Rebuild the rear suspension since you seem to have the front under control. Basically build a car that will take power, it's no fun to have even 300 horsepower and be scared because it won't stop or steer.

Thats just my two cents. But i'm a poor college kid so all of my mods are piecemeal. I don't know your budget (even though it seems hefty with the Mustang II front suspension) but I would look at building a well rounded car before building one with a trick motor.

Ive taken a long hard look at the situation, so heres some answers:

For one, the 429 will not be in the car for a long while, so im just gonna play around with the stock 302 and the T-5.

I have subframe connectors on order and the MII IFS on order. Im just gonna use the stock discs on the suspension, then upgrade later to Wilwood assemblies.

My priority is the bodywork, which is my specialty. First, I have to get rid of the 1/4 inch layer thick of rustproofing on the aprons, and the undercarriage. This car was intended to be a eleanor clone, but i dont have the money for the bodykit right now, so im just gonna make the car look good for now.

The interior is my major concern right now, as i need to redo the WHOLE thing. Its lime green now, and I want it black. Im not using stock 68 front seats, im using 69 seats. Anybody know where i can get full interior kits cheap?

I just want the car running, is all. If anybody has any more advice, Id love to hear it!

John

steel1212 · May 24, 2006

Do yourself a favor and get tko600. Why spend the money twice on something that is going to not work. Its not a chance of if it will but when? Your young and male, and when I was your....hell I still do it, I drop the clutch every now and then but I don't have the cubes the 429 has or the stump pulling torque that it has or will have when you get done, because you know you can't leave it alone!

bnickel · May 24, 2006

68Eleclone said:
I understand, but im 18 and also starting college too, so im keeping an eye on my money.

I understand the situation with the 429 and the t5, but im a risk taker, so im gonna see where this trans goes, i just might rebuild it with stronger gears, because in my budget, i have no money for a spare trans. And a auto is not an option.

I was gonna go with the TCP coil-over setup, but i wanted a fully independent suspension, so i decided to go with the MII setup. I am not going against the info of you guys, in fact i appreciate the opinions, im just gonna see where the T-5 goes with the 429.

John

i don't understand, do you think the stock 68 mustang front suspension is not fully indepedent? it is and so is the tcp kit or any other suspension kit you can buy for a 68 mustang. even a mcpherson strut is fully independent it just doesn't have an upper control arm. in fact you can actually make the stock 68 front suspension work better than any MII kit will. it sounds to me like someone is feeding you a line of **** and you're buying it hook line and sinker.

the MII kit is going to end up costing you about twice what you're paying for it by the time you're done having it installed as it is not a bolt in kit and you need someone that is familiar with welding one of these kits in to do the install. i think you need to re-think your entire approach on this car and spend your money a little more wisely and do a lot more research about what you want out of this car.

DukeGnarley · May 24, 2006

I would sell the MII and T5 and put the money towords a TKO600 or a 4 spd plus some suspension rebuild parts. to run the big block you're also going to need an 8.8 or 9" rear end.

GNN60GT500 · May 24, 2006

I agree with what bnickel said-

Someone is feeding you a line of BS-

Also, take it from someone who owns a real Shelby, with a big b-

If I was going to build a clone, I would NOT put a 428 in a 67/68 fastback if I wanted it to handle-

My Shelby cruises down the freeway nice, and it can go in a straight line nice-

but handling, with all of that weight in the front end, the handling is not that great-

the car pushes like a son of a bitch into corners and under heavy breaking, the back end is always tyring to come around on you-

and I even have modified to Shelby suspension with springs, bigger sway bars, exc to try to make it better-

My 66 with the small block would smoke my Shelby through the twisties- it is a much more balanced car with the small b-

I would build a 351 if I was in your shoes- kind of gives you the best of both worlds-

Not to mention on a budget, parts are going to be ALOT cheaper-

If you are on a budget, the last motor you want to try and build is a big block Ford- parts are EXPENSIVE.

I just dont want to see you put a bunch of money in a big block, and a ton of money in suspension, then to find out when you finally put in the big block to find out your car handles like crap compared to when it had the small block in it-

1320stang · May 24, 2006

Nobody makes a 429/460 bellhousing that will accept a T5 that I know of. Lakewood nor McLeod's line of modular bellhousings have one. The C4 won't bolt up to the 429 either. You'll have $1000 just in a custom bellhousing.

I'd cancel the MII order until you do some more studying on what you want to do. (see? still have to study, hehe) Take the money you've saved, sell the T5 and buy a toploader, you can put a big in/out toploader behind a SBF. Buy the Crites kit for putting the 429 into the '68 engine bay.

tamadrummer88 · May 24, 2006

DukeGnarley said:
I would sell the MII and T5 and put the money towords a TKO600 or a 4 spd plus some suspension rebuild parts. to run the big block you're also going to need an 8.8 or 9" rear end.

Thanks guys.

The reason why I went with the MII setup is because i was told that the car would handle better, plus, It was cheaper than the TCP setup. I do not know that much about mustangs yet, so please bear with me.

Im sorry, but I really, REALLY want to stick with the T-5 Because I got it for a good deal at a j-yard. 300 bucks from a 70,000 mile cobra. I am calling up transmission places to see if they sell harder gears.

So, if i put the 429 in, even with the stiffer springs on the front for the weight, the car will handle like crap? So i should just keep the 302 thats in ther and build that instead? (BTW, it has like over 180,000 miles on it) If i do go that route, should i keep the 429 as a spare?

John

GNN60GT500 · May 24, 2006

Hey,

In my honest opinion, it will handle like crap- its just too much weight over the front end-

On my Shelby, I have the stiffer springs, so that the car is lowered 2.5 inches, and alot thicker antiroll along with KONI shocks-

My 66 with the small block just handles way better. The car just feels way more balanced and when you push the car, it feels alot more controlable-

Stroke that 302 out to a 347, do heads, cam and you will be one happy camper- and you will have spent alot less money-

not to mention you can keep the T5 with the small b-

Dont get me wrong, I love my Shelby, but hands down I love driving my 66 restomod better-

Not to mention big block parts are VERY expensive compared to small block parts-

You cant go wrong with a stroked 302-

tamadrummer88 · May 24, 2006

GNN60GT500 said:
Hey,

In my honest opinion, it will handle like crap- its just too much weight over the front end-

On my Shelby, I have the stiffer springs, so that the car is lowered 2.5 inches, and alot thicker antiroll along with KONI shocks-

My 66 with the small block just handles way better. The car just feels way more balanced and when you push the car, it feels alot more controlable-

Stroke that 302 out to a 347, do heads, cam and you will be one happy camper- and you will have spent alot less money-

not to mention you can keep the T5 with the small b-

Dont get me wrong, I love my Shelby, but hands down I love driving my 66 restomod better-

Not to mention big block parts are VERY expensive compared to small block parts-

You cant go wrong with a stroked 302-

How much horsepower at the wheels can i look at with a 347 302? will it be streetable, not to mention have a tame idle? And, my dream: How much RPM's can I get out of a 347?

John

DukeGnarley · May 24, 2006

If it's the big cubes you're after, you can always get a 408 or 427 cubic inch stroker (351 W block). with aluminum heads it wouldn't weigh a whole lot more than the stock 289, and would fit nicely in the engine compartment. the 408/427 would however be too much for the t5.

bnickel · May 24, 2006

68Eleclone said:
Thanks guys.

The reason why I went with the MII setup is because i was told that the car would handle better, plus, It was cheaper than the TCP setup. I do not know that much about mustangs yet, so please bear with me.

Im sorry, but I really, REALLY want to stick with the T-5 Because I got it for a good deal at a j-yard. 300 bucks from a 70,000 mile cobra. I am calling up transmission places to see if they sell harder gears.

So, if i put the 429 in, even with the stiffer springs on the front for the weight, the car will handle like crap? So i should just keep the 302 thats in ther and build that instead? (BTW, it has like over 180,000 miles on it) If i do go that route, should i keep the 429 as a spare?

John

a well setup modified stock suspension will handle better than a MII kit will. get a set of roller spring perches from www.opentrackerracingproducts.com and set of his modified upper and lower control arms and good set of adjustable strut rods from global west, TCP or www.strretortrack.com and you're already way better than a MII setup. if you want a good bolt in rack and pinion check out www.randallsrack.com.

for a basic street car your stock disc setup up front will be just fine but there are relatively inexpensive conversion kits out there like the one from www.mustangsteve.com that uses 13" cobra rotors and calipers and adapts to stock drum brake spindles and hubs. you can also get rear disc brake stuff from www.ultrastang.com. there is another place that sells front and rear disc conversion stuff that so far seems to be pretty good too, www.vintagevenom.com

anyway my point is that there are tons of options out there besides the MII kit. have you gotten a quote for having the MII front end installed yet? it will likely cost you over a thousand bucks on the low end and a couple grand on the top end to have installed right. or are you planning on doing it yourself? if you plan on doing it yourself have you ever done anything like that before? are you a skilled welder? if you don't have any suspension and welding experience then forget about doing it yourself, this is your life and the lives of others we're talking about. if something went wrong with the install i'd hate to think about what could happen to you, the car and innocent bystanders.

tamadrummer88 · May 25, 2006

bnickel said:
a well setup modified stock suspension will handle better than a MII kit will. get a set of roller spring perches from www.opentrackerracingproducts.com and set of his modified upper and lower control arms and good set of adjustable strut rods from global west, TCP or www.strretortrack.com and you're already way better than a MII setup. if you want a good bolt in rack and pinion check out www.randallsrack.com.

for a basic street car your stock disc setup up front will be just fine but there are relatively inexpensive conversion kits out there like the one from www.mustangsteve.com that uses 13" cobra rotors and calipers and adapts to stock drum brake spindles and hubs. you can also get rear disc brake stuff from www.ultrastang.com. there is another place that sells front and rear disc conversion stuff that so far seems to be pretty good too, www.vintagevenom.com

anyway my point is that there are tons of options out there besides the MII kit. have you gotten a quote for having the MII front end installed yet? it will likely cost you over a thousand bucks on the low end and a couple grand on the top end to have installed right. or are you planning on doing it yourself? if you plan on doing it yourself have you ever done anything like that before? are you a skilled welder? if you don't have any suspension and welding experience then forget about doing it yourself, this is your life and the lives of others we're talking about. if something went wrong with the install i'd hate to think about what could happen to you, the car and innocent bystanders.

My dad has a lot of experience in the field of bodywork and welding, so he will be helping me. I have a mig welder, so it wont be hard.

John

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