This gay mass air stuff...

Paul Perreca · Jul 19, 2005

I was wondering - In 1987 and 1988, how the hell did people modify their mustangs when there wasn't even a mass air A9L or ECM computer designed yet? How did they get their cars modded and RUNNING RIGHT? at the same time. This bewilders me -

What I need to know -

Would it be best if -
A) I got the new motor built w/ the old speed density computer and everything hooked up like it is now, w/ my cam ported heads and cobra intake w/ 70mm throttle body etc.. And than see how it runs - Than eventually convert it to mass air being that I have almost all components to convert it?

or

B) When i put the motor in, convert it to mass air at the same time -

Reason being - My car still runs, just not right at all - I want to be able to drive the car onto the lift and than turn that engine off indefinately.

Second reason - I cannot move the car w/o computer installed and in order to get this A9L computer (which is only $96 at churchs auto) I have to send in my CORE computer - so... I'd need to make the switch later anyway i think - Im at a loss. Thanks Fellas - Appreciate everything
Paul Perreca

Modular2v · Jul 19, 2005

they have programs that help speed density run right....i didnt even bother going with the maf stuff....just throw a carb on and be done....even though i DID get my 331 stroker to run on the factory speed density setup

Mustang5L5 · Jul 19, 2005

Paul Perreca said:
I was wondering - In 1987 and 1988, how the hell did people modify their mustangs when there wasn't even a mass air A9L or ECM computer designed yet?

WHat mods did they have back in '87 and '88???

EFI was only 2 years old at that point and '87 was a new engine basically. I don't think the level of mods was in big demand anyway at that point and the cars were pretty much the fastest things on the road already.

Besides, MAF debuted in '88, so they only had to wait a year before the hardware and computers were available

Foxfan88 · Jul 19, 2005

My dad used to own a body shop back when the foxes were POPULAR.
I asked him if the 5.0s were modified back then (late 80s early 90s) Since they had alot of mustangs come through the shop.

He said they were all stock, since EFI was new then, nobody wanted to **** with that ****. HE said there were the occasional stang with an exhaust, but nothing like they are today.

Tomato · Jul 19, 2005

The only thing that really upsets a SD car is camshafts....

I would do heads/intake/blower/turbo/nitrous...

emagdnim · Jul 19, 2005

Theres several great SD friendly cams out there , crowler and comp make some. Im installing a nx264 soon , xe264 is good also for SD , hell even a 270 with 114 lsa should work fine.. Just get yourself an afpr so you can tune the engine.

DMAN302 · Jul 19, 2005

I would remain SD untill such time it becomes necessary to convert over. Unless the cam is quite radical I would expect the car to operate OK while SD, but inorder to make to most of the additions to the car you may need to swap over. I used the FMS kit and converted to mass air in a half hour without even a pair of pliers required..plug and play. Not the cheapest route...but fast and effective.

Paul Perreca · Jul 19, 2005

Mustang5L5 said:
WHat mods did they have back in '87 and '88???

EFI was only 2 years old at that point and '87 was a new engine basically. I don't think the level of mods was in big demand anyway at that point and the cars were pretty much the fastest things on the road already.

Besides, MAF debuted in '88, so they only had to wait a year before the hardware and computers were available

Your tellin me nobody hot rodded a mustang in 1988 and 1987 because there were no aftermarket parts ?
Paul Perreca

DMAN302 · Jul 19, 2005

There was a limited selection of parts available for the EFI mustang at that time.."hot rodding" was just coming back to life after the performance killing gas crunch era. Cars like the Camaro irocs/GTAs/Grand Nationals/Mustangs were all fairly new concepts, and EFI compatable enhancements were VERY limited by todays standards. Cylinder heads, exhaust, turbo systems were available, but new for EFI and few were diving into that pool then. SD was not the true limiting issue..the modders were there..just the available products and $$ were the limiting issues.

StangFireman · Jul 19, 2005

I don't know about you, but 12.0's with SD, stock cam, Unported E7's, Explorer intake, 1 3/4 shorty headers, full exhaust on BFG drag radials kind of works for me.

Paul Perreca · Jul 19, 2005

what are E7's I think they are heads, but who makes them, is that the name for stock heads? Explorer intake and Cobra intake are the same right?
Paul Perreca

(sorry i feel like I'm leading the witness lol)

StangFireman · Jul 19, 2005

Paul Perreca said:
what are E7's I think they are heads, but who makes them, is that the name for stock heads? Explorer intake and Cobra intake are the same right?
Paul Perreca

(sorry i feel like I'm leading the witness lol)

E7's are the stock factory head on most Mustangs unless it was a Cobra. Then it was a GT40. And yes, the Cobra and Explorer are pretty much the same.

2000xp8 · Jul 19, 2005

Convert to Maf, and get it over with. You don't want to be bothered with using certain cams.
Alot can be done with it, but there is also alot that can't.

89MustangGX · Jul 19, 2005

There was a lot of stuff being done back in the day, it was just done differently. There was a lot of experimenting and trying to mix old performance parts with new technology, etc.

I think the GT40 stuff came out in 89 for the 25th Anniversary edition that never really materialized -- that's pretty early on.

Ranchero5.0 · Jul 19, 2005

Back in the day a friend got a brand new '87 Gt and the only thing he did was get rid of the cats and it was pretty untouchable.

For SD vs MAF as said above leave it alone till you are ready for heads and a cam, then swap it out.

Jamie

emagdnim · Jul 20, 2005

2000xp8 said:
Convert to Maf, and get it over with. You don't want to be bothered with using certain cams.
Alot can be done with it, but there is also alot that can't.

Not everyone has that kind of money to burn.. im all about making what you have as fast as possible spending the least amount of money.

2000xp8 · Jul 20, 2005

emagdnim said:
Not everyone has that kind of money to burn.. im all about making what you have as fast as possible spending the least amount of money.

You can get it done very cheap, you'd be suprised.
Even if for the moment you use a stock meter (which is almost free these days).
I believe less than $150

There is certain harness' that can be spliced.
5.0droptop (shawn, who had the nice gt vet) knows how to do it this way, very cost effective.

brands5.0 · Jul 20, 2005

I say only change over if you have trouble, My first mustang was an 87 and i changed over because everyone told me i should later my buddy with an 88 SD added the same heads and cam and had no problems at all. SD is what all the F.A.S.T. and other aftermarket comp. use

Tomato · Jul 20, 2005

Ok....
First thing is SD has NO way of knowing you have increased airflow into the motor at a given manifold pressure.

So, your fueling will be way off. Guys doing heads/intake/cam will be LEAN at heavy and WOT. At the same instance, idle and light throttle will get rich because at idle, the car will have less manifold pressure, but not require more fuel...

The other way, by disconnection the 02's and increasing fuel pressure, you can fix the wot lean, but will make part throttle even richer.

If you leave the 02's connected, they will see rich a low loads, lean out the WHOLE map, and take out the affects of your higher fp at wot.

My current Capri 5.0 had GT40p heads on it, and that's it, adn was VERY lean from 4300 to 5500. Picked up majot hp by chipping it.... now that I have a hoggd out intake, It REALLy would have been lean, and richening up AFTER the heads picked up 10rwhp just in the tune...

The way we did it back in the late 80's, early 90's was normally with additional injectors.,,, like a cold start injector at wot, or activating a relay at wot that would bring in parallel injectors.

Boosted cars used either additional injectors, turbotechnology used a nitrous style fuel injector, and then the FMU came along... a perfect soultion for speed density,, and why we dont need it for mass air.

Now, you can use a Tweecer or chip to fix all you wot tuning woes. For really demanding fuel situations, you can buy inexpensive additional injector drivers that you can map fully (map vs rpm 3d tables)...

Some software can now allow you to up the injector size and do it all from there....

I would not switch to mass air today. Worst case scenario, for the cost of the mass air upgrade, a bigger maf etc... you can buy an aftermarket EFI system, or If you are handy, you can swap in a GM SD system that is fully mapable for $100 plus some labour...

Paul Perreca · Jul 20, 2005

Yea i already have the 76mm MAF sensor w/ inlet pipe - i just need the A9L computer - btw, thanks tomato for your specificness!
Paul Perreca

This gay mass air stuff...

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