Thoughts on the new CPP front suspension?

Helmantel · Aug 18, 2009

The PDF from Wilwood says: Bolt-On Steering Arms - high strength forged steel arms are strong and can be run front or rear steer, or
inverted if necessary to improve steering
characteristics such as bump steer with relocated or
custom mounted steering linkages.

You are of course absolutely correct though that the Ackerman geometry would be way off if you were to use them in a rear steer application. I actually thought that the arms were a little bend, so that the tie rod hole would end up more outwards (front steer) or inward (rear steer, with the arms flipped around), but now that I look at it again, it seems to be straight. Since the arms wouldn't work in combination with a vintage Mustang suspension anyway, due to their too high position, I didn't give that Ackerman problem much thought.

You could make it work with (a) thick spacer(s) between the arm and the spindle and a long bump steer stud to put the tie rod pivot point down and inward, but it would probably be way too flexible (and ugly too).

speed1972 · Aug 20, 2009

Ok, so correct me here because I believe my calculations are correct.....

The arms are designed to bolt on in either direction. The ackerman is built into the spindle itself, not the arm as the arm appears to form a straight line between the 3 bolt holes of the arm. With that being said starting with a rear steer application, you should be able to swap spindles from right to left and flip the arms to gain the correct front steer ackerman because you will need the same angle of outward tie rod attachment point as the inward angle you had from the rear steer.

With that being said, we just need wilwood to design a set of these spindles for the stock type suspension

LB

Steve69 · Aug 20, 2009

CPP Bracket

Hey Rusty. I have the strut rod braces out. What a PIA...LOL. I had to do
alot of cutting and grinding. My CPP stuff is on the way. Is there a pattern or something where the main brace is mounted. I dont see any holes where it
could bolt up on my 69 Stang. To me it looks like you have to drill out the holes on my frame. how did you get everything centered up? Thanks for the help.

Steve69

Rusty67 · Aug 20, 2009

Steve69 said:
Hey Rusty. I have the strut rod braces out. What a PIA...LOL. I had to do
alot of cutting and grinding. My CPP stuff is on the way. Is there a pattern or something where the main brace is mounted. I dont see any holes where it
could bolt up on my 69 Stang. To me it looks like you have to drill out the holes on my frame. how did you get everything centered up? Thanks for the help.

Steve69

I know you need to drill a few holes in the frame. Unfortunately I can't help you. My car was used as a prototype and after that was done they gave me a set of the final suspension already installed on the car. I didn't get to do any of the work on it.

bmxace · Aug 21, 2009

I have a 65 coupe that I'm doing with my son. It's stripped down to nothing right now, so it'll be awhile till I can get it on the road to give feedback on how it handles.

I purchased the mini-sub frame kit, just the lowers. I'm using Opentrackers upper street arms with roller spring perches.

I began cutting and grinding the strut rod braces tonight, and steve69 is correct.....what a PIA!!

The kit seems to be very stout. A-arms look to be well made, and the brace seems heavy enough to handle the task it's asked to. One thing that I have noticed as I am under the car grinding away is that the sway bar mount bracket is about 1/8" below the frame rails. The new bracket is to be bolted to the sway bar mount, the frame rails, and the radiator support rail (yes, you do have to drill the holes in the frame and radiator support). Anyway, because of the swaybar support being below the surface of the frame rails, I think I'm going to have to shim the new bracket so that it sits flat on the frame rails before I can bolt it down. Otherwise I think it will distort the frame as it sinches it together. I'm hoping that a 1/8" drop in the front mounting bracket will not affect the a-arms geometry too much or cause any binding anywhere. I dont think it will be a problem, but I'm going to keep a close watch on how things fit together.

I know that's probably hard to follow without pictures, so I'll try to get some soon.

I'm also going to try the new Borgeson integrated steering box on this car.

If everything handles and performs as advertised, this will be a fun car to drive without going over the top.

Steve69 · Aug 24, 2009

cpp

After clamping it up I figured it out. I clamped it on the frame and loosely installed the control arms and adjusted the main plate so it was right on. Then I drilled the mounting holes. I wasn't sure what Im suppose to do with the lock out cams. Looks like they lock the lower arms in place after the allignemet is done.

Steve69 · Aug 24, 2009

Steve69

Bmxace, I was wonder what those drop down brackets are. The way it looks
to me I wont need those on my 69. Looks like the sway bar braces are not covered up on the 69. Did you figure out the lockouts?

bmxace · Aug 25, 2009

steve69, I haven't gotten back to the front end yet. I have several things going on at once with the car. My son had the rest of the car ready for prime, so i thought it best to get it primed before any flash could set in. I also paused to get the MustangSteve pedal assy. mounted with the new holes it would add to the firewall.

Anyway, I did take note when reading through the instructions that there was no mention of the lock outs and how to use them. I figured I'd ask the question when i got to that point.

I'm going to try to get back to the front end tonight and get some pictures. I'd like to see some pics of your install if you have any. I know '65 and '69 will be different, but it would be interesting to see how yours turned out.

Steve69 · Aug 25, 2009

Ill get my camera out and take some pics. Im still drilling holes to get it
mounted. Another PIA...LOL. Ive already went through one bit. Instructions say 7/16 bit but the a 13/32 bit seems to work better. I think Ill take those lock outs to the allignment shop when I get everything done. Im
thinking once they get it alligned maybe they install those lock outs so the adj will stay in place. If you check out the thoughts on CPP there is some good pics on that thread also.

Steve69

Rusty67 · Aug 25, 2009

Check here for the pics of the suspension installed on my 67:
Untitled Document

Just a warning, these will take a while to load, they are really high res.

Federico Garza · Aug 26, 2009

Nice parts If you dont mind some constructive criticism I would replace the hex nuts and lockwashers on the upper balljoints with some Grade C/Torque prevaling/ metal locknuts like the ones you have on the perches.

1320stang · Aug 28, 2009

I wonder if they'll make a kit for Fairlanes?

5280/4 · Aug 28, 2009

make your own lower plate. Buy the LCA from them and some TCP uppers (or make some, its easy). mount the coilover to the LCA and you will have a really good set up. or build your own LCA with rodends instead of bushings.

but i reeally like their idea of that lower plate. prbably the best idea on the market, just needs a few modifications.

ace_xp2 · Aug 29, 2009

Helmantel said:
cool mII spindle stuff...

Wow, I'd read about these on cc.com but never realised they were quite that close.
Could one get the camber right with that extra kpi? (must admit I'm not sure of the range the factory stuff has)
if not would a 1/8'' shorter arm like cpp's make it possible?
Couldn't one simply get an arm machined from billet? I realise this wouldn't be cheap, but combining the .8'' higher pin (or higher w/ 2'' drop) and 3/8'' shorter height with an arm whose mounting position was the same as those bump kits (the ones which moved the arm both down and in) may lead to enough space to get a not ridiculously sized rim around the suspension.
Which to my mind would be worth the price of admission.

Steve69 · Aug 30, 2009

Hey Rusty67

Is your Spindle this close to the ball joint on your CPP Control arm? I have my installed and it doesn't seem right. I posted some pics on Mustang Steves site.

Thanks
Steve69

FYI FORD - MustangSteve's Ford Mustang Forum: Pics of CPP lower control arms with Daze's

Rusty67 · Aug 30, 2009

Did you check the pics I posted on the last page to see if it looks any different ? If you want I can try to take some pics of mine tonight before I leave.

Steve69 · Aug 31, 2009

Hey Rusty I did check out your pics. If you wouldn't mind taking one in front of the spindle and the lower control arm and slightly up. It seems like on mine the dust boot is crushed between the spindle and ball joint. one of the boots has a tear from hitting the bolt that looks like it holds the dust boot down.

Thanks again
Steve69

Steve69 · Aug 31, 2009

Looks like they cut down your sway bar spacer link also. Im thinking I might have to do that also.

Steve69

Rusty67 · Sep 1, 2009

I'll have to take those pics on Monday when I'm close to the car again, send me a PM on Monday or post in here again to remind me or I might forget.

Steve69 · Sep 1, 2009

You can just post them on here. Thanks Rusty67

Thoughts on the new CPP front suspension?

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