To cam, or not to cam...

Fett · Dec 30, 2004

Getting mixed signals on this one, some say you need one...others say no.

I am going with a combo of, street ported stock heads with 1.7 rockers, performer intake, 70mm TB/MAF, headers/intake/exhaust, 3.73 gears. I am looking to get into the 12s in a daily driver.

Some people are saying I should go with 1.6 and an E cam, others are saying 1.7 and stock cam.

90mustangGT · Dec 30, 2004

Fett said:
Getting mixed signals on this one, some say you need one...others say no.

I am going with a combo of, street ported stock heads with 1.7 rockers, performer intake, 70mm TB/MAF, headers/intake/exhaust, 3.73 gears. I am looking to get into the 12s in a daily driver.

Some people are saying I should go with 1.6 and an E cam, others are saying 1.7 and stock cam.

Sounds like my old combo. What do you mean be "street" ported stock heads. I had/have Thumper's E7's which are totally streetable. As far as the cam goes, I ran the stock cam with 1.7's for a while and it worked quite well. I swapped to a B cam on the 1.7's and I did gain some horse, but lost a lot of drivability and low end tq. I ran what it says in my sig, which is good for high 12's low 13's, if I had traction it would have been well into the 12's. 25thmustang runs a Cobra intake, stock heads with GT40 Valves, all the surrounding goodies but still the stock cam. He ran about the same as me in the 1/8th (I never ran the 1/4) maby a little better but at a better track I am sure and he was cutting 12.5's on slicks.

bluevenom867 · Dec 30, 2004

You could use the "B" cam with 1.7 rockers and go with 3.90 gears and it would be very streetable and you wouldn't notice the slight lack of low end torque if you go with 3.90 gear.You can gain torque in other easier was than leaving the stock cam in the car, because your gonna want a cam sooner or later.Sucth things like 1/2-1 inch intake spacer, and taking the time to install long tube headers.

90mustangGT · Dec 31, 2004

I ran that combo, 1.7RR's on a B cam, but I had it advanced (to help bottom end) and I noticed a considerable drop in low end tq, but I have/had heads, intake, full exuast, ect. All a cam is going to do to a stock engine is shift the powerband where the engine really can't breathe, making it slower even thought there would be a gain, the average TQ across the powerband would be lower. A cam on a stock 5.0, maby a really mild one for gains, yes, but a very mild one. Try to stay in the mid .400's in lift because the heads don't flow any more after 4.50 and the stock valve springs can't take it. Stay in the teens in durration. Such as a 212-216 on intak and 214-220 in exaust durration.

wyominghotwheel · Dec 31, 2004

if it was me, i would go with a trickflow stage 2 or 3, with 1.6 rollers.........but that is just my .02..........have a friend with a 306 and a trick stage 3, and a 100 shot of nitrous, car ran a best of 10.81........hotwheels

Michael Yount · Dec 31, 2004

Stick with the stocker for daily driver status - you'll be much happier with drivability and fuel mileage. The key to 12's is your traction set up. Be sure you have subframes. A set of slicks and a willingness to sidestep the clutch at about 5500 rpm should put your combo in the 12's without too much trouble. There's lots more than 1 cars out there with longtubes/exhaust, gear and slicks that hit low 13's/high 12's -- nothing else done to the motor.

04sleeper · Dec 31, 2004

I would run the stocker as well. I love the drivability with it.

And after seeing a friend of mine build a car for Real Street make over 600 RWHP with a stock cam that was enough for me.

hllon4whls · Dec 31, 2004

The stock cam is a good unit. Gets a good bit of power out of a small motor. Exhaust, ported heads, intake and roller rockers can get you in the 12s. If not you can certainly add a cam afterwards and not waste any money.

Schlodes · Dec 31, 2004

I've run 1.74, 12.30 @ 111 MPH so far with stock cam, AFR 165s, 1.7 RRs Edelbrock Performer, 3.73s, slicks, 5 speed, 24 lb inj, 75 mm MAF, 65mm TB...

Also for what it's worth I wanted to see what it would do with the above combo but stock lift... and the car went 12.50s @ 109 before the rocker install.. everything else the same.

The car drives like stock, idles quiet and smooth and hopefully will crack into the 11s next season.

04sleeper · Jan 1, 2005

Schlodes said:
I've run 1.74, 12.30 @ 111 MPH so far with stock cam, AFR 165s, 1.7 RRs Edelbrock Performer, 3.73s, slicks, 5 speed, 24 lb inj, 75 mm MAF, 65mm TB...

Also for what it's worth I wanted to see what it would do with the above combo but stock lift... and the car went 12.50s @ 109 before the rocker install.. everything else the same.

The car drives like stock, idles quiet and smooth and hopefully will crack into the 11s next season.

Very Nice Combo there Schlodes! I plan on a very similar combo with my coupe. Just going with a freshened up 306.

04sleeper · Jan 1, 2005

Schlodes said:
Thanks!

Like I say, the ultimate goal is 11.90s then i'm just going to leave it and have fun.. I even just go to 7-11 and fill up with their 91 octane before I head off to the track.. nuthin fancy

I think it would go alot quicker as it sits with a good posi unit, AND going to a different track. With 110-111 traps and a 1.6xx 60 it should go low 12s now..

We'll see in the springtime.

Yeah. With the 111 you should be right there. I'll bet you haven't used up all your tricks to get into the 11's either.

You will have it before you know it.

Great Job!

I was thinking on this combo:
Keith Craft 306
AFR 165's 58cc
Stock Cam
1.72 Pro Magnum Rockers
FRPP Ceramic Shortys
Added to my Mods already. I feel I can be right there as well.

I am already trapping 105 with stock headers still on the car so I think it will be interesting with better heads a new shortblock with more compression.

My goal is somewhere around low 12's on Drag Radials.

Don't know why my posts keep comming up with the wrong time???

Schlodes · Jan 1, 2005

Thanks!

Like I say, the ultimate goal is 11.90s then i'm just going to leave it and have fun.. I even just go to 7-11 and fill up with their 91 octane before I head off to the track.. nuthin fancy

I think it would go alot quicker as it sits with a good posi unit, AND going to a different track. With 110-111 traps and a 1.6xx 60 it should go low 12s now..

We'll see in the springtime.

lit_mike_2001 · Jan 1, 2005

wheres thumpers website?

TheBocSez · Jan 1, 2005

lit_mike_2001 said:
wheres thumpers website?

http://thumperoforangepark.com/

NKau · Jan 1, 2005

Another vote for the stock cam. Wish I still had the stocker in my notch; I miss the low end grunt.

Michael Yount · Jan 1, 2005

If you're looking for the best of both worlds - bottom end/idle quality/drivability of the stocker with a little "kick" in the middle and on top, check out CompCams XE258 or XE264.

04sleeper · Jan 1, 2005

Michael Yount said:
If you're looking for the best of both worlds - bottom end/idle quality/drivability of the stocker with a little "kick" in the middle and on top, check out CompCams XE258 or XE264.

I have been eyeballing the XE258 for some time now because I like the small duration. Just the small duration and 533/544 lift I think would make for too steep of a ramp profile. Not sure if it would clear stock pistons either.

I'll have to look into it further.

Michael. Do you know anyone running this cam personally?

Michael Yount · Jan 1, 2005

The custom Buddy made for me is VERY similar to the XE258. I LOVE it. Not sure about your p to v concern though; peak lift has nothing to do with clearance. It's the low duration that makes it/mine have BIG p to v clearance - as in, not even close. I had less clearance with the E cam before. In general, I believe our motors LOVE the steeper ramps and the quick opening/closing valve motion.

04sleeper · Jan 2, 2005

Michael Yount said:
The custom Buddy made for me is VERY similar to the XE258. I LOVE it. Not sure about your p to v concern though; peak lift has nothing to do with clearance. It's the low duration that makes it/mine have BIG p to v clearance - as in, not even close. I had less clearance with the E cam before. In general, I believe our motors LOVE the steeper ramps and the quick opening/closing valve motion.

Sounds good. I was talking to someone at AFR about it and he said it was great. Just wanted to hear it from someone else.

Does it have a lope? Or is it close to stock?

Are your rockers noisy? I know certain grinds can lead to noisy rockers.

I have a couple of friends interested in this cam as well.

Thanks,

Kevin

Michael Yount · Jan 2, 2005

Be careful on generalizing about the cams Kevin - how they behave is dependent on a bunch of variables - the rest of the engine components, static CR, displacement, etc. A cam that lopes hard in a 302 with 9:1 CR will be MUCH milder in a 10:1 347.

My custom was designed with my set up in mind - and I'm constrained on the exhaust side (2.25 head pipes into a single 3" system).

The cam has very little lope - sounds a little more agressive than stock; 18-20" of vacuum at idle. The car will pull without hesitation or bucking from as low as 1100-1200 rpm in 4th or 5th gear. And it gets 18-19 mpg around town, 24-26 mpg on the road. It makes no less than 270 lb-ft (crank) from 1700 rpm all the way to 5000. VERY flat, broad torque curve. Peak torque at 3800 rpm (about 335), peak power at 4800 rpm (about 275). I'm very pleased with it.

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