Torque arm/panhard bar question

[stangbear427]

I have the FMS aluminum driveshaft with my TA and haven't had any clearance problems. It's nowhere near it, or the exhaust. Maybe the Griggs TA takes up more room than the MM one? I don't know but you shouldn't have any problem. The only problem I ever had was my driveshaft loop hitting the top of my Prochamber O/R pipe, which had nothing to do with any of my suspension.

 

[Legendary]

I had to dig thread up! Hey stangbear427, did you put the torque arm and everything else on yourself? Did you do the pinion measurements like the instructions said? Was it hard? I'm just waiting to get some money for some shocks (I got everything else) and then I can put it on.

Edit: And what's a good street tire you suggest for my cobra r's?

 

[stangbear427]

Yes, my tech and I did it together. Yeah, we did the pinion measurements too- it was easy, because they just so happened to be right on. Tires? Depends. What's your main purpose for them? Launch or corners?

 

[Legendary]

Corners. But of course you know that it's a daily driver. Don't want to be back and forth to the tire shop!

 

[Matts89LX5.0]

is a panhard bar good for a drag car as well?

 

[autoXr1]

"is a panhard bar good for a drag car as well?"

For most street/strip cars, this system has a lot of advantages. Any time you can control lateral movement, the car will launch straighter. Years ago when I first had the stock style 4-link and put on the PB, it was a night and day difference, even with Maximum Motorsports control arms. In fact, after I put on the control arms, I tested it. Then, installed the PB, and the car launched perfectly straight, even with tire spin. No side-to-side slip-n-slide that is common to stock Mustangs. The effect was quite dramatic.

A few years ago, the same question was posted on the Corral. There were a number of 9 and 10 sec. cars running TA/PB suspensions with 60' claims as low as 1.2 sec!

The TA/PB geometry is certainly a far cry better than the factory design which, among other things, leads to a much harder and efficient launch. For more serious drag racers, there are better suspension set-ups like adjustable 4-links and ladder bars, but they too, have lateral locating devices. The PB DOES have some lateral movement with suspension travel, the effect is minimal, but it is enough that your more powerful vehicles are subject to tirespin, and is why you don't see PBs that often.

Griggs Racing has a "Pro-Style" drag race suspension that includes the TA with a Watt's-link. The Watt's-link does not create ANY lateral axle movement. Grigg's also uses the Watt's-link on their "World Challenge" suspensions. For more information, www.griggsracing.com

 

[stangbear427]

Corners.

I've had good luck with my Nitto 450 Extremes so far. They are V rated, so they wear better and cost less than the Z tires, and stick like mad in the corners. Decent in the wet too, although not the best I've used. However, the best I've used were another $20 a tire and I only got about four months out of them. These Nitto's are great. Quiet, predictable, good ride and great grip. They don't hook up quite like the 555's do, but close enough for my purposes. I think I'm gonna try the Khumo Ecstas next, there are some daily drivers in here using them who love them, and they are supposed to be great in the rain too.

 

[stangbear427]

The TA/PB geometry is certainly a far cry better than the factory design which, among other things, leads to a much harder and efficient launch. For more serious drag racers, there are better suspension set-ups like adjustable 4-links and ladder bars, but they too, have lateral locating devices. The PB DOES have some lateral movement with suspension travel, the effect is minimal, but it is enough that your more powerful vehicles are subject to tirespin, and is why you don't see PBs that often.

Griggs Racing has a "Pro-Style" drag race suspension that includes the TA with a Watt's-link. The Watt's-link does not create ANY lateral axle movement. Grigg's also uses the Watt's-link on their "World Challenge" suspensions. For more information, www.griggsracing.com

True. It's a compromise of application however. While the Watt's link is arguably superior to the panhard in drag applications, it doesn't always work as well in the curves. You have to know in advance what is more important to you. The longer the distance between pivot points, the larger the arc made by it's movement, the less the rear will move in a way that causes the tires to unload in a corner. The watts link cuts the panhard bar in half, making two small panhards that have two arcs, the radius of each being half a normal panhards arc radius. For a car that drives on real roads, a panhard is the better peice. Quarter mile only, a watts link may prove to be slightly more stable side to side, but I doubt the advantage over a panhard is measurable in tenths. On a perfect road course, it may again be more positively located, but if the wheel rates aren't set to accomodate the overstiffness caused by it's short little arcs, the tires will be even more prone to unload under hard cornering. What's more important than deciding which design is better is setting up your car with the right wheel rate for the type of driving you'll be doing- and that's the part of the suspension 99% of us gearheads goof up trying to set these cars up ourselves with mix and match parts.

 

[autoXr1]

I agree. A true race-style Watt's-link is not for your general "hobbiest" or "enthusiast" unless you are prepared to get the vehicle professionally set-up. I left a lot of this to the team at Griggs Racing.

A panhard bar is rather easy to install, even for a "backyard mechanic". Although, once the mounting brackets are bolted into the frame, welding is recommended.

 

[Tstang90]

I have a H/D TA Griggs and panhard bar w/ there springs out back car rides awesome. I dont regret it at all. Good Luck forget lowering springs from BBK or any other out of the box kit you need to add 50lbs to the rear. The rear rates start at 350lbs and up for a TA converted car.

 

[Legendary]

Thanks for the good info guys! This thread should help in the future!!

What tool did you use to measure the pinion angle? Did you have to make any adjustments? (shimming the torque arm)

 

[Michael Yount]

Here's additional info about how a Watts-link actually works. http://www.spitzracing.com/watts_link.htm

It's my thinking that lateral location by a Panhard rod is actually a compromise compared to a properly set up Watts-link. As a practical matter, however, the Panhard is a reasonable compromise for laterally locating solid axles, and HIGHLY preferable to lateral location by angled upper control arms or, heaven forbid, leaf springs.

 

[runningmole]

I have a H/D TA Griggs and panhard bar w/ there springs out back car rides awesome. I dont regret it at all. Good Luck forget lowering springs from BBK or any other out of the box kit you need to add 50lbs to the rear. The rear rates start at 350lbs and up for a TA converted car.

Yeah it is awesome. I have the 390-430 springs in teh rear. I really like it. Just ordered some H&Rs for th efron t(750-850) should be fun

 

[autoXr1]

"...It's my thinking that lateral location by a Panhard rod is actually a compromise compared to a properly set up Watts-link. As a practical matter, however, the Panhard is a reasonable compromise for laterally locating solid axles, and HIGHLY preferable to lateral location by angled upper control arms or, heaven forbid, leaf springs."

YES.

Most, if not, all SCCA Trans-Am cars use Watts-links. Many live-axle World Challenge cars also use Watts-links.

 

[stangbear427]

heh heh heh... he said leaf springs... heh heh...