valvetrain noise

[timk]

i have recently replaced the engine in my car. i built it myself, using the following parts:
2000 explorer shortblock
steeda #19 cam
stock lifters
thumper heads with upgraded valve springs
crane 1.7 roller rockers (pedestal mount)

when i first fired it up, i was using stock length pushrods. lots of noise, when i checked, they were way too loose.

i went to longer pushrods, 6.300's. still noisy, sounded like one lifter in particular was making more noise than others.

went to 6.350's, with .020 shims. still noisy. one lifter was still worse than others.

took out shims, so full length 6.350's. least noise yet, but unexceptable. one lifter seemed noisy.

rio gave me a couple of lifters. i replaced suspect lifters, reassembled, and it didn't change a thing.

now, i have gone over and over and over how to tighten the rockers down. 1/2 to 3/4 turn is what everyone, including crane, recommends. at 1/2 turn, the valvetrain makes an incredible racket. it gets less at 3/4, less at 1 full, less at 1 1/4....i know that is supposed to be too tight, but the racket begins to subside each time i go longer with the pushrods.

what the hell am i missing? this is not geometry noise, it's too much.

i have mucho oil pressure, 43lbs at idle, 60lbs at 2000rpm. this is where most of the noise is.

are lifters supposed to be arranged a certain way? oil port in or out?
are stock ford lifters not tough enough for higher lifts? (.512")
are the lifter guides suspect? could i have them upsidedown?

all of that said, it runs very, very strong. it runs cool. there is no particulate matter in any of the oil changes. it doesn't burn any oil (6000 mile shortblock).

at this point, i would entertain any and all suggestions.

sorry so long.

 

[twotonefreak]

I know what you mean. Right now on my GT-40P's I have stock lifters and rockers with a TFS Stage 1 cam and quite a bit of noise. I have a feeling that the stock rockers are hitting the pedalstal or even the valve covers. Do you have the stock covers still? I didn't think you could run aftermarket rockers of that size with them?

 

[twotonefreak]

I also rechecked mine to make sure there wasn't any slack between the rockers and pushrods, nice and tight I don't remember the exact spec, but anyway I have just about learned to live with, some say its just gonna have some noise, while others which I agree with is it is possibly hitting somewhere.

 

[timk]

I also rechecked mine to make sure there wasn't any slack between the rockers and pushrods, nice and tight I don't remember the exact spec, but anyway I have just about learned to live with, some say its just gonna have some noise, while others which I agree with is it is possibly hitting somewhere.

ok, you know, it DOES sound like something is hitting, but i raised the stock valve covers with thicker gaskets, and nothing changed. i also looked very carefully for marks on the inside of the valve covers, and nothing there.

hmmm...the rockers hitting the pedestals...that's a new one. i could check that pretty easily.

thanks for your interest.

 

[twotonefreak]

No problem. I have really been trying to figure out why my is making a racket, b/c I just put my new engine together about 2 wks. ago. Let me know what you find.

 

[S/CBlack95GT]

You need to make sure you have enough preload. Make sure the lifter is completely bottomed out for the rocker you are adjusting. Set your torque wrench to 18ft-lbs. Handtighten the bolt until it just goes tight and there is no slack in the rocker when you gently rock it. After that use the torque wrench and tighten the bolt until the wrench clicks.

Here is the important part-- Make sure you put at least one half of a turn on the bolt before the wrench clicks. If you can put more than one full turn before the wrench clicks you must install shims. I find mine work best with around 5/8 of a turn, with no shims. Of course I have the stock cam so yours may or may not need shims. The main key is to get somewhere between one full and one half of a turn on the bolt before the wrench clicks off at 18ft-lbs.

You must use a torque wrench set at 18ft-lbs though. You can't just tighten them one full turn and call it a day. The 18ft-lbs is a way to measure how much preload is going into the lifter.

 

[final5-0]

Tim

A good while back I had a valvetrain ticking noise that took me a good bit of time to find.

I picked up a set of E7's with Crane springs to try my hand at porting.

New locks were used when I put the heads together.

The original Intake and Exhaust locks were not the same but I did not know it at that time.

The bottom of the rocker was too close to the retainer on a few of the valves. Can't remember if it was I or E but on the original locks half of them made the retainer height a tad lower which gave the clearence needed.

Don't know if this helps
Good luck

Later
Grady

 

[timk]

grady,
wow, that's a good one! i had the exact same problem on my 351 that i built for a 68 torino....10 years ago! i don't know why i didn't think of it!

ok, keep 'em coming boys, i need all the info possible so that the next time i open the valve covers, i lick the problem.

s/c black....it's not a matter of tight or not tight...so far it hasn't mattered a bit in terms of the noise. a little less noise with the longest pushrods, but i'm not buying that anymore....always torqued to 20 ft. lbs.

 

[timk]

any more suggestions? i hate to beat you guys over the head with this, but.....

 

[final5-0]

Tim

Very good info on setting up your valvetrain the correct way can be found on some of the cam sites.

Good luck
Grady

 

[timk]

ok, so i spent the morning checking each rocker to see if it was making any kind of contact with:

1) valve covers
2) valve springs
3) pedestals
4) gremlins

and found no evidence of any contact with anything. i am literally stumped. there is no reason that i can find for any valvetrain noise whatsoever, yet it is there.

my next course of action, unless there is someone out there with an obscure explanaiton, is to replace all of the lifters, ruling out that as a possibility.

 

[RIO5.0]

Tim....you could try new lifters, but it prooly won't help...i put brand new FMS ones in mine....i don't have a racket by no means...if the ones i sent you did nada, then news prolly wont either...they have mucho miles on em???

heres one for ya....i have yet to do this,as mines stored.....there are 2 trains of thought on adjusting....most will tell you to PUMP em up before adj, do 1/2 the motor, then re-prime for the other 1/2....been there done that....no better results...
the other theory is to BOTTOM the lifter out as S/CBlack95GT states (if i'm reading him correctly)
while cruising thru FTI's site a couple weeks ago, Ed had a tech write-up on how to adjust the valvetrain...he also states to have the lifters bottomed out??? then he also adds that "expect noise upon starting until they prime or fill up" ..

now thinking back..the first time i did my RRs, after adding H/C, my lifters had to be empty, i set it up just as your doing...i got mucho clatter upon start up...10 mins later they were dead quiet...

my thinking is....get them lifters BOTTOMED OUT and then try it...

i tryed to attach the link to Eds info on adj them...can't seem to find the article, he updating the site....

 

[timk]

andy, i just don't think it's an adjustment proceedure. there is enough valvetrain noise that i think it's a parts issue, i.e., something not performing correctly.

did you get the upgraded valve springs on your heads? mine are supposed to be good to .550...i got the regular sized valves....crane cobra 1.7's...steeda #19 cam. there shouldn't be any incompatibilities. there shouldn't be any reason for 6.350" pushrods. i KNOW that more than 1 full turn to torque spec is too much, but this is where they are the quietest.

i'd hate to have to trash the whole setup. it does work well, but i can't imagine driving it like this indefinitely.

 

[final5-0]

andy, i just don't think it's an adjustment proceedure. there is enough valvetrain noise that i think it's a parts issue, i.e., something not performing correctly.

did you get the upgraded valve springs on your heads? mine are supposed to be good to .550...i got the regular sized valves....crane cobra 1.7's...steeda #19 cam. there shouldn't be any incompatibilities. there shouldn't be any reason for 6.350" pushrods. i KNOW that more than 1 full turn to torque spec is too much, but this is where they are the quietest.

i'd hate to have to trash the whole setup. it does work well, but i can't imagine driving it like this indefinitely.

Tim

The rr wear pattern on the top of the valve stem should look something like this.

How does yours look?

Later
Grady

 

[timk]

grady,

similar, but mine looks a little more like a bow tie. any ideas?

thanks for asking.

 

[final5-0]

Tim

Was looking at Crane's site last night and saw the minimum distance between the bottom of the rr & retainer is .040 of an inch.

Later
Grady

 

[twotonefreak]

Just thought I would throw this in, I finally have about 800 miles on mine, and it has a lot less noise than it did just 200 miles ago. It has toned down a whole bunch since this thread was started???

 

[timk]

Just thought I would throw this in, I finally have about 800 miles on mine, and it has a lot less noise than it did just 200 miles ago. It has toned down a whole bunch since this thread was started???

no, noise is NOT going away. any chance the lifter hold-downs are improperly installed? mine had the solid pieces, grouped in 4's, not the dogbones.

 

[twotonefreak]

Sorry I miss worded that last part of my post, I meant that mine has toned down a bunch, can't hear the noise unless you are standing next to it with the hood up. Hope everything works out for you.

 

[timk]

Sorry I miss worded that last part of my post, I meant that mine has toned down a bunch, can't hear the noise unless you are standing next to it with the hood up. Hope everything works out for you.

thanks grady and twotone. i appreciate the ideas.