Weird timing problem

sweet88gt · Aug 3, 2005

Ok, just came inside and cant get the damn the running.Itook the heads off and put them back on -dont ask why Im a dumb#@$ and while I was in there changed the injectors to 24lbs and gat a C+L 76mm intake system with mass air for the injectors. I fired it up and cant get it to run right. It will only idle when the timing is retarded. I warm it up to get the light on it to advance it to say 10BTDC for a reference and it dies before I can get even close. It will only idle at 10ATDC. Fuel pressure is at 38lbs which was the last setting I had. Any ideas?? Is it too much fuel?? Im so pissed I cant think straight.Thanks.

89CopCoupe · Aug 3, 2005

Are you checking with the spout disconnected?

Was your cam and crank aligned when you dropped the distributor ...
The car shouldn't idle worth a crup when set at an actual 10* ATDC.
This doesn't leave much time for the cylinder to build good pressure to keep the assembly rotating with the necessary force, so the computer picks up on this and artificially advances the timing.

To me it sounds ignition timing related.

sweet88gt · Aug 3, 2005

Yeah spout was diconnected. I am guessing its timing and not fuel but I have tried evrything I can think of with the timing. Removed spark plug put finger over hole to make sure on compression stroke, set timimg pionter on balancer at 0, reset dizzy as rotor faces #1 on cap, double check firing order, start up will only happen when timing is retarded, which in itself is retarded. Anything Im missing.

89CopCoupe · Aug 3, 2005

Hmm, that is really bizarre.

Whenever I've adjusted timing the more I advance it, the higher my idle speed goes.

Maybe start from square one again, you might have accidentally bumbled something
I guess I've always been lucky and done it right the first time

*Timing marks on crank and cam aligned
*Balancer reads 0*
*Module well grounded to side of distributor
*Module wires undamaged
*Drop distributor in factory location with rotor on cylinder one
*Wires correctly routed and set in the correct firing order on the cap
*Fuel pressure set correctly prior to work
*Reconnect battery
*Turn it over to get fire and slightly adjust timing by ear until warm
*Shut it down
*Pull spout connector
*Restart and set timing to 10*-14*BTDC

Maybe go back through the steps and see
You didn't swap a cam in or anything, right?

sweet88gt · Aug 4, 2005

The car ran fine and I was getting some noise from the heads and took them back off to make sure everything was ok. I just dont understand. I was wondering if it had too much fuel or if the injectors were pulsing too long if the timing would cause that problem.

carlp · Aug 4, 2005

I have been assisting sweet88gt with this. Here is what I have confirmed. Engine is at TDC on Compression stroke of#1 cylinder. We dropped the distributor in witht he rotor facing to the back of the engine.(#1 on the cap) When the heads came off, the cam was not disturbed the timing chain remained on the car and it was set up straight up with the 2 dots pointing directly at each other when it was initially installed. When the car started I pointed the light at the car and the timing read 10 degrees btdc. When I pulled out the plug(node or whatever else you call it) The car basically dies and the last think I could see with the timing light was that it was reading 10 atdc. It's not like this is the 1st time I have put a distributor back in a car. Am I missing something? Please help I don't even own the car and this is driving me crazy. The car behaves like it is way out of time even witht eh distributor as advanced as I could get it.(It would not turn anymore due to the module hiting the t-stat housing) the car is sluggish and backfires on rapid acelleration. ONce again, anyone who migh know something, please chime in.

ss93cobra · Aug 4, 2005

Still sounds like you're off a cylinder, regardless of what you've stated in the previous posts....

89CopCoupe · Aug 4, 2005

ss93cobra said:
Still sounds like you're off a cylinder, regardless of what you've stated in the previous posts....

CaptainObvious: If you zero the balancer on the compression stroke, then the rotor has to point dead on at the cap terminal for cylinder #1.

You are using the correct cylinder numbering for #1, right?

The only other thing I could conceive is that maybe the "new" MAF is throwing some crazy code at the computer that is in turn retarding the timing Hell I don't know what else to say if everything is done right

sweet88gt · Aug 4, 2005

I dont claim to be smart but not a total moron. I found the compression stroke for #1 and have the rotor facing #1 on the cap. I just came inside from readjusting the vavles because Im grasping at straws here. I unplugged the MAF sensor and seems to help. I replug MAF sesnor no change. I set dizzy as far to the thermostat as possible and gets better. Checked timing with spout connected 10BTDC- I know thats not how to check but It was leading up to when I unplug the spout and check timing it goes straight to 10ATDC. Of course it wants to die right away. Any reason or thoughts why I cant get enough for base timing? Im going to get my friends Snap On computer over the weekend but still want to here any suggestions.Thanks

shttygtstang · Aug 4, 2005

you know i had the same problem one day and it happen to be a set of plugs

89CopCoupe · Aug 4, 2005

The MAF is supposed to make a difference when warmed up ... check the voltage. When cold the computer runs in open loop (rich)

If that's not it, redrop the dist ... at no point in it's swing should you be obstructed by the stat housing when going from -10* to +10*.

sweet88gt · Aug 4, 2005

I know that the dizzy has never been in this postion to make the car run. Ive had the damn thing out more than a few times and this is a first for me. How and what is when the car "jumps" time??

89CopCoupe · Aug 4, 2005

sweet88gt said:
..... How and what is when the car "jumps" time??

The camshaft and the crankshaft are tied together with a chain (like a bicycle).
The bigger sprocket is attached to the front of the cam and the smaller one is attached to the front of the crank.
The crank rotates two times to each one turn of the cam (because the cranks sprocket is half the circumference of the cams.)

Jumping time is when the chain gets worn out enough and actually jumps a few teeth to put the two sprockets out of sync.
When this happens the valves are not opening at the proper time in the cycle that they are supposed to.

sweet88gt · Aug 4, 2005

Well i guess its not that. I installed a new timing chain when I did all of the work. I cant get over that the car ran fine with the stock injectors and mass air. Changed these while I was in there and now I have some type of timing issue. Im guessing I wont know anything until I drop the codes to see if anything shows up. Would the wrong plug on the injector cause any issues. For ex. if I have two of the injector plugs say crossed for some reason would I have similar issues?? I am pretty sure this is not the case but it doesnt seem to be running on all 8. Maybe injector not firing?? I have researched all of these ideas and Im going to check some things out tom. Some of the other posts have me thinking about some new things to check. Ideas are still welcomed and anyhting to speed this up would be great.

89CopCoupe · Aug 4, 2005

Switched injector ... oh yes ...

Our engines are sequential electronic fuel injection:
This means the injector is supposed to spray at the right time, or "sequence".

Try this link to see the firing order and cylinder numbering to make sure the wires on the cap are in the correct order and are routed to the proper cylinder #.

http://www.boxwrench.net/specs/ford_302_351W.htm

sweet88gt · Aug 4, 2005

The spark plug wires and cap positions are correct. That I have checked everytime I pull the dizzy out. Ive probably pull the dizzy and checked TDC 25 times since the problem occured. Its bad when you start to memorize the firing order.
How about the stupid TFI, do you think it went bad sitting around for less than a week without use. Or, maybe the distrbutor is the problem? Or maybe a 12 gauge shot gun would solve my anger management problem.

331 stang91 · Aug 4, 2005

I'f you still have the old maf and injectors i would put them back in to elimate the possiblity of the new maf and injectors causing the problems GOOD LUCK!

sweet88gt · Aug 4, 2005

In my original post I indicated that I was a dumb@#$. I sold the injectors.

shttygtstang · Aug 4, 2005

how are you adjusting your rockers

89CopCoupe · Aug 4, 2005

sweet88gt said:
In my original post I indicated that I was a dumb@#$. I sold the injectors.

Weird timing problem

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