Well the insurance verdict came in today....

Pakrat · Oct 29, 2004

After careful consideration of the cost to fix and comparison made to some bogus car that is for sale in Lafayette where ever, they have determined the replacement value of my car to be $15,385. There is no way I can buy a comparable car for that (which I don't want anyway) and if you deduct the $3000 dollars they want back for salvage then there isn't enough left to fix it either.

I am going to call them back today and say that I need $15,000 net to fix it however they want to work that out but I'm guessing they aren't much for haggling?!?!?!??! So what other option besides sueing do I have? It seems to me that I have no choice now but to turn it over to the lawyers? Everyone keeps telling me I should get one for the personal injury anyway, so does that seem the right thing to do? Is there another way out? I've heard of arbitration but that seems lengthy and unsure when compared to litigation.

What would you guys do?

MrBobMarley · Oct 29, 2004

Sorry to hear that. Did the adjuster mention anything about a contract repair, instead of a total loss?

Max Power · Oct 29, 2004

A lawyer will cost ya, maybe even more than he gets ya.

Is Hagerty willing to step in?

66 BLAKE 96 · Oct 29, 2004

That sucks Pak. I'm no lawyer, so I'll spare you the advice (guess). You definately should get more than that though.

Pakrat · Oct 29, 2004

Well, in NH cars this old do not require a title so there is no salvage to worry about making a contract repair uneccessary. Basically I can just buy it back and fix it. As far as Hagerty, I am waiting for a return phone call still. Not sure what they can do though. Again my value is only for my $$ investment, not market/replacement value, so it's only 13k with them. Even if they give me that agreed amount and without a buy back price, then we are only talking a few hundred more dollars and lord knows what happens with my policy either after that.

I just got off the phone with his insurance and they say they only have a $150 wiggle value and that this offer is more than fair for my car. I explained that this does not put me back where I was before the accident (the rules of a total loss) and that it won't get the car fixed so how can that be consdiered fair when the victim either loses his car or suffers out of pocket loss to fix? All he could say was "well, life isn't usually fair, there is nothing else they can do and they feel confident that they would be found to have been more than fair in their agreement and to have followed the law that binds them."

I just don't see how I can be the victim and yet I have to take it up the @ss like this.

Ronstang · Oct 29, 2004

I think you neck and back hurts real bad.....sadly it should have since the first day. Playing fair and ethical with insurance companies is a sure way to get screwed.

Pakrat · Oct 29, 2004

There is no "thinking" about it, it honestly does. I have back, neck and knee injuries I am dealing with. I had to start physical therapy this week in fact. I'm not worried about that end of it. I can guess though that a lawyer (I have a call in by the way and awaiting return) is going to suggest we just settle the car end of it and worry about getting every last dime squeezed out of them for the pain and suffering and injuries. I have to believe that is easier to get money out of then trying to prove the extra few grand needed on the car. Then I can spend the money where ever I want.

SIGH, I just can't #$%&@!* believe this .

jerry S · Oct 29, 2004

Pakrat said:
Well, in NH cars this old do not require a title so there is no salvage to worry about making a contract repair uneccessary. Basically I can just buy it back and fix it. As far as Hagerty, I am waiting for a return phone call still. Not sure what they can do though. Again my value is only for my $$ investment, not market/replacement value, so it's only 13k with them. Even if they give me that agreed amount and without a buy back price, then we are only talking a few hundred more dollars and lord knows what happens with my policy either after that.

I just got off the phone with his insurance and they say they only have a $150 wiggle value and that this offer is more than fair for my car. I explained that this does not put me back where I was before the accident (the rules of a total loss) and that it won't get the car fixed so how can that be consdiered fair when the victim either loses his car or suffers out of pocket loss to fix? All he could say was "well, life isn't usually fair, there is nothing else they can do and they feel confident that they would be found to have been more than fair in their agreement and to have followed the law that binds them."

I just don't see how I can be the victim and yet I have to take it up the @ss like this.

Pak:

I am a lawyer and the one time I did do an insurance case, I came away thinking that whatever sleazy reputation my profession has, the insurance industry deserves one 3x as bad. My client was getting lowballed by the company on a claim that was so obvious, it pi$$ed me off. I called the adjustor and told him I was looking at the claim and that in my opinion, he had to up his offer by $20,000 or I would get involved and then it would cost them more than that. "File your case" was all they said. So I did, and they settled for $30,000 more than what they were offering but only because I decided to be the biggest a$$hole in the world. the bottom line is insurance companies are, for the most part, profit/loss entities. Each claim they can stiff a guy like you is more money to their bottom line. Each individual claim is a drop in the bucket but after you add a few thousand of them, then the numbers start to get big. It means a bigger profit sharing check for your adjustor at the end of the year and he knows it. Talk to a lawyer to read over your policy and to advise you of your options. Then do some cipherin and some figurin and see if it makes sense to pursue a legal solution.

Pakrat · Oct 29, 2004

jerry S said:
Pak:

I am a lawyer and the one time I did do an insurance case, I came away thinking that whatever sleazy reputation my profession has, the insurance industry deserves one 3x as bad. My client was getting lowballed by the company on a claim that was so obvious, it pi$$ed me off. I called the adjustor and told him I was looking at the claim and that in my opinion, he had to up his offer by $20,000 or I would get involved and then it would cost them more than that. "File your case" was all they said. So I did, and they settled for $30,000 more than what they were offering but only because I decided to be the biggest a$$hole in the world. the bottom line is insurance companies are, for the most part, profit/loss entities. Each claim they can stiff a guy like you is more money to their bottom line. Each individual claim is a drop in the bucket but after you add a few thousand of them, then the numbers start to get big. It means a bigger profit sharing check for your adjustor at the end of the year and he knows it. Talk to a lawyer to read over your policy and to advise you of your options. Then do some cipherin and some figurin and see if it makes sense to pursue a legal solution.

That's good advice, thanks. I know how they work, and I never expected them to be concerned with my situation over there own, I was just really hoping that I was not going to need a lawyer. One question though, I'm not filing this with my insurance company, it's with the guilty parties insurance, so do you still mean have the lawyer read over their policy? I just don't see where anyone is going to want to fight this part of the battle though as opposed to just making up the difference with personal injury. I mean, my god, wouldn't they have to get an incredibly ridiculously high number out of them to make any kind of difference after they take thier cut out of it? Otherwise I'm worse off than on my own, right?

Man, l feel worse than I did the last few weeks not knowing what was going on. Part of me right now just wan'ts to take the whole check say screw the car and the hobby and pretend I sold it to the guy who offered me that for it last year. I know that's something I'd likely regret later on, but right now I just don't feel like I have the fight left in me.

Old Blue · Oct 29, 2004

Pakrat said:
That's good advice, thanks. I know how they work, and I never expected them to be concerned with my situation over there own, I was just really hoping that I was not going to need a lawyer. One question though, I'm not filing this with my insurance company, it's with the guilty parties insurance, so do you still mean have the lawyer read over their policy? I just don't see where anyone is going to want to fight this part of the battle though as opposed to just making up the difference with personal injury. I mean, my god, wouldn't they have to get an incredibly ridiculously high number out of them to make any kind of difference after they take thier cut out of it? Otherwise I'm worse off than on my own, right?

Man, l feel worse than I did the last few weeks not knowing what was going on. Part of me right now just wan'ts to take the whole check say screw the car and the hobby and pretend I sold it to the guy who offered me that for it last year. I know that's something I'd likely regret later on, but right now I just don't feel like I have the fight left in me.

pardon my possible ignorance. but if you are insured. it is YOUR insurance companys responsibility to put you back exactly where you were before the accident occurred. If the other party is at fault, then it is YOUR insurance companys responsibility to get them to pay the check for the damages. if your insurance company can not get the full ammount from them to cover the cost of repairing your car, then it is up to them to persue legal action to fully recoup their losses.

Most decent insurance coverages have a "uninsured" and ""underinsured" coverage. check your policy, you may qualify under your own policy for one of these, which means in the even the at fault company does not pay the amount needed to repair your car, then your policy picks up the rest.

you should also be aware that you are not required to use the at fault partys policy at ALL. you can go entirely through your own insurance company to settle the auto damages, thats your right, and why you pay your monthlys. if your insurance wants to go after the at faults, then that is their call. you should be out of that loop in my opinion.

This sucks, i wish you luck, and hope you get back wherre you AND your Mustang belongs!

Pakrat · Oct 29, 2004

Well now that I know what his insurance is offering me I have placed another call to my insurance company and am waiting for them to call back. Again though, my car is only covered under my policy for what my dollar investment is in the car, not what the cars market value is. My coverage is not enough to cover repair or replacement. I never planned on needing my insurance unless I was at fault, and if it was me who was at fault my car would never be totaled unless there was no way out. A valuable lesson learned here I guess, update your policy every year and always cover it for resale value + a few grand just to be sure. I'll have to see if they will cover the difference for me in which case problem solved but I don't think it works that way.

The car just got towed back home for now by the way, I can't decide if I felt worse looking at an empty garage or seeing that crumpled up hunk of metal that use to be my car sitting there.

gp001 · Oct 29, 2004

I will quote my reply from one of your other posts. I will add that at this point you should contact the insured and explain to them that since their insurance company isn't fully covering your loss you will be sueing them for the difference. A paniced call from their customer may have an affect on their bottom line.
When my moms car was wrecked (6 months old, guy ran a stop sign and hit her ) it took me 2 months, 6 certified letters, and 3 adjusters to finally get the actual replacement cost. You gotta fight for it. A lawyer will, but he'll take 25 - 33%.

Here is what my lawyer friend suggested:
First, request a copy of the guys insurance policy. This will allow you to see his coverage levels. This may prove benficial down the road because if he has good coverage (high dollar, multiple car, multiple policies[ie home], etc) they may be more likely to settle high if you threaten to sue him as well as the insurance company.
Get repair quotes from a few HIGH END repair shops
Have all your HIGH value ads from Hemmings, E-bay, etc ready
Have all your documentation, pictures, trophys, etc ready
Lay it on thick that this is more than just a car (it doesn't directly affect the value, but lets them know you are willing to fight for it- as opposed to just someone with a "driver" car)

Most Important Tip --> GET EVERYTHING AND SEND EVERYTHING IN WRITING. They will most likely change adjusters and/or offices handling the claim so that anything one person said won't mean doody. When they inform you by phone of any changes in who is handling the claim, or what the status of the claim is, make them send it in writing.

These types of things tell them whether or not you are gonna fight or get run over

__________________

jbsteven · Oct 29, 2004

I am not trying to be mean but use this as a learning experience with insurance. ALWAYS cover your car for every penny that it is worth (or money spent on it). ALWAYS carry un/under insured insurance. This will cover you in all situations.

State Farm lets you decide how much to cover your own car for. Everytime I add $1000 worth of parts/upgrades I call the insurance company and up the amount my cars are covered for.

live and learn.

Pakrat · Oct 29, 2004

gp001 said:
I will quote my reply from one of your other posts. I will add that at this point you should contact the insured and explain to them that since their insurance company isn't fully covering your loss you will be sueing them for the difference. A paniced call from their customer may have an affect on their bottom line.
When my moms car was wrecked (6 months old, guy ran a stop sign and hit her ) it took me 2 months, 6 certified letters, and 3 adjusters to finally get the actual replacement cost. You gotta fight for it. A lawyer will, but he'll take 25 - 33%.

__________________

I have been following your advice wisely to date GP except for what you have added today. I'll try placing that phone call though and see what it yields. Maybe the guy will want to pay up front too and avoid a lawsuit, who knows. The wise guy at all state actually suggested to me in a side bar conversation that maybe I needed to get the money from the insured as well, nice the way he doesn't look out for his client that way. Maybe when I call him I should mention that this was their idea for me to sue him for the balance. Hmmmmm?

Pakrat · Oct 29, 2004

jbsteven said:
I am not trying to be mean but use this as a learning experience with insurance. ALWAYS cover your car for every penny that it is worth (or money spent on it). ALWAYS carry un/under insured insurance. This will cover you in all situations.

State Farm lets you decide how much to cover your own car for. Everytime I add $1000 worth of parts/upgrades I call the insurance company and up the amount my cars are covered for.

live and learn.

Well see, there is the tricky part in your lesson though, I did have it insured for money spent on it, but when you do your labor yourself then what it's worth and what you have into it are two different things. Hagerty does not I beleive offer an underinsured clause, it is agreed value plain and simple. I decided on that value based on my dollar investment, not it's market or replacement value. I don't know how many ways I can say that until people stop pointing out the painfully obvious to me.

bnickel · Oct 29, 2004

man, that sucks. if you need someone to talk to, shoot me a pm.

rbohm · Oct 30, 2004

when next you deal with the adjuster, tell him that not only are oyu considering a lawsuit against the insurance company as a whole, but you are planning to go to the local BBB, the state insurance board, the local and regional, and perhaps national consumer watch dogs, etc. just in general get under his skin with every government ands consumer agency you can think of to go to. also let him know that you are going to start a letter writing campaign to every newspaper you can think of, in every area that allstate does business in, as well as spreading you problems across the internet, and that you will highly recomend that people drop their coverage with allstate as they do not represent their clients very well at all, and if they are considering buying insurance from allstate, that they change those plans and go with another company instead. remember to be absolutely professional about this, and perhaps even show them a rough draft of your complaint BEFORE you file it. be sure to itemize everything, including the labor you have in the car, the cars value as compared to similar vehicles for sale, the nada classic car value, etc. generaly when faced with something like this most adjusters will capitulate and raise their settlement offer. oyu could also check, but as i recall most states have laws on the books that rewuire the insurance company to pay for any repairs to the car even if htey would have totaled the car otherwise. and htat means they have to fix the car TO YOUR SATISFACTION, and pay for ALL the damage done and repaired. if you choose to go this route, DO NOT SIGN FOR THE CAR untill it is repaired to your satisfaction.

one2gamble · Oct 30, 2004

never take the first offer with an insurance company...many people think they wont haggle but they will because they do not want to go to court. They will never win a case like this...

MustangPaul · Oct 30, 2004

Pak--I can't add anything but these:

Keep the faith.
We're pulling for you.

--Paul

Old Blue · Oct 30, 2004

MustangPaul said:
Pak--I can't add anything but these:

Keep the faith.
We're pulling for you.

--Paul

word!

Well the insurance verdict came in today....

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