What is the best H/C/I combo for a stock

90Notch · Jun 27, 2005

Somewhere around 9psi should get you there.

Electric water pump, 1-3/4" LongTubes into mufflers

Toss that motor into a car with accessories and a realistic exhaust and watch what happens to power numbers.

For reference the AFR185 motor above that made 305rwtq @ 2250rpm made 400 fwhp on an engine dyno like this test then 275rwhp in the car with exhaust and access.

5000rpm in a 10:1 stroker comes on extremely fast, I built mine to make power to 5500 and can say from experience that I wish I had more rpm. This was a car that was daily driven through city streets. Strokers have plenty of torque down low and I beat those who have actually owned one will probably agree to build it for HP. It seems those who have no experience with them think you should build for torque.

89CopCoupe · Jun 27, 2005

90Notch said:
Toss that motor into a car with accessories and a realistic exhaust and watch what happens to power numbers .....

..... I beat (bet?) those who have actually owned one will probably agree to build it for HP. It seems those who have no experience with them think you should build for torque.

-20 for accessories is a given

The 266 pulls to about 6K ... (like you said) it moves through the r's so fast that if it quits at 5500, I don't notice a great deal. Initially I had the 282 and swapped it due to an erratic idle issue that I knit-picked myself over.

To draw an "experienced" conclusion is f@gg-worthy ... many with experience prefer 3.55s to 3.73s and visa versa.

My experience from running these 2 grinds is very noticeable ... the throttle response down low (where I spend a lot of time) is way better. Not that the car was a slouch with the 282 ... but I did consume more fuel with it, even just cruisin' to the store and such. I also couldn't pass my state emissions with the 282 and now passes fine with the 266. I guess it made that big of a difference.

Experience does not make anyone intelligent ... otherwise you'd be wise as a box of rocks Personally, from my experience, I prefer to build any damn size engine with a broad curve ... not for torque, not for hp

tmoss · Jun 27, 2005

90Notch said:
Installed the new 306 (afr 185's, ported stock intake, stock cam, 65mm tb, bolt-ons) in the '90. Put in a T5, still has stock 2.73's.
Here are the chassis dyno numbers (dynojet at Walsh Motorsports): rwhp/rwtq

2250 130/305 (initial reading)
2500 148/310
3000 188/328
3500 232/346
3700 /351 (peak tq)
4000 260/340
4500 272/320
4700 275/ (peak hp)
5000 270/282
5500 245/233

This is VERY much like ndmp40s results - same 185 heads, and ported stock intake with a stock cam - notice the power falls on it's face at 5k due to the small intake.

5spd GT · Jun 27, 2005

For a 302 bottomend (not really discussed anymore) get AFR 165's over the 185's.

For a 347 the 185's would be nice. Just remember when purchasing the 185's for the temporary 302 bottomend watch out for piston to valve clearance problems being more of a potential.

When looking at rwhp numbers by certain combos, get all the details you can. Accessory removal or rotating weight lightened (aluminum flywheel for example) can produce more significant gains for sure. At that cost for a street car you potentially get a harder turning car (power steering removed)/the driver being uncomfortable (a/c removal)/more trouble passing smog (smog pump removal)/etc.

Lyncher · Jun 27, 2005

5spd GT said:
For a 302 bottomend (not really discussed anymore) get AFR 165's over the 185's.

For a 347 the 185's would be nice. Just remember when purchasing the 185's for the temporary 302 bottomend watch out for piston to valve clearance problems being more of a potential.

When looking at rwhp numbers by certain combos, get all the details you can. Accessory removal or rotating weight lightened (aluminum flywheel for example) can produce more significant gains for sure. At that cost for a street car you potentially get a harder turning car (power steering removed)/the driver being uncomfortable (a/c removal)/more trouble passing smog (smog pump removal)/etc.

ty...not quite sure waht you mean by the last few sentences...I definatly want to keep the power steering and a/c. The car is going to be a dd and it can get damn hot here during the summer!

5spd GT · Jun 27, 2005

Lyncher said:
ty...not quite sure waht you mean by the last few sentences...I definatly want to keep the power steering and a/c. The car is going to be a dd and it can get damn hot here during the summer!

Sorry I was confusing. In short I mean, if you see the rear wheel horsepower numbers being given to you to try to persuade you to get a certain kind of combo and the numbers seem a bit higher than the "normal". Check into it or ask and see if/what accessories where deleted off of the car. Power gains can be made by that...

I am with you...I keep my accessories. I would rather ride like that (comfort) then get a few more ponies

For example, the difference between a 300rwhp car and a 320rwhp car could be because the latter has the powersteering/air conditioning unit/smog pump deleted. And maybe more with an aluminum flywheel for example. I wouldn't get an aluminum flywheel to obtain those higher dyno numbers. You will want better driving characteristics (iron or billet steel flywheel). It may be a bit heavier but will provide you with better driving characteristics. When you remove accessories it removes the belt driven drag on the engine (more torque/horsepower is gained).

Just make sure you know what is in a combo your looking at when someone trys you to persuade you with a part to make more power. There is often more than one variable in the reason why one makes more power than another in a similar combo'd car.

That 320rwhp car maybe "faster" but you will be more comfortable in your still nice 300rwhp.

That may have confused you more...sorry

Lyncher · Jun 28, 2005

Yeah im definatly going to look into everything I get. I am not gonna get something because one person tells me they had good results. I will base my decisions upon my opionion as well as the feedback and reviews I get from other people. I can see why people would remove a/c and that stuff for like a weekend and track car, cause you can choose to not drive it when its hot n stuff...but for a dd...u gotta have the ac and power steering!

Lyncher · Jun 28, 2005

..and no it didnt confuse me more lol...it actually cleared it up!

89CopCoupe · Jun 28, 2005

5spd GT said:
..... I am with you...I keep my accessories. I would rather ride like that (comfort) then get a few more ponies .....

Not me, I like to be full throttle, sweating like a pig in stop-n-go traffic with a wife-beater on

Exactly, you can't beat a reliable dd with cool a/c and enough juice to still scratch a few gears when you want.

90Notch · Jun 28, 2005

"The 266 pulls to about 6K ... (like you said) it moves through the r's so fast that if it quits at 5500, I don't notice a great deal. Initially I had the 282 and swapped it due to an erratic idle issue that I knit-picked myself over. "

Was this is in 302 or 347, different animals. Had a friend that ran a 266 in a 347, on dyno made power to 5000 and cam spent three weeks in car before it was pulled for something larger. Street diven car and he hated the small powerband.

"notice the power falls on it's face at 5k due to the small intake."

382fwhp @5000, 399 fwhp @5500, 382fwhp @5000. Not soo sure it was that it's a small intake or the length or the small cam for that matter. Still pretty damn impressive #'s in my eyes.

tmoss · Jun 28, 2005

90Notch said:
382fwhp @5000, 399 fwhp @5500, 382fwhp @5000. Not soo sure it was that it's a small intake or the length or the small cam for that matter. Still pretty damn impressive #'s in my eyes.

These are not the numbers above though.

90Notch · Jun 28, 2005

No the numbers above are rwhp numbers notice the difference between running on an engine dyno and in a car with accessories and realistic exhaust...the point I'm making here. On engine dyno it was still holding its own upto 5500rpm where they shut it off.

89CopCoupe · Jun 28, 2005

90Notch said:
....Was this is in 302 or 347, different animals. Had a friend that ran a 266 in a 347, on dyno made power to 5000 and cam spent three weeks in car before it was pulled for something larger. Street diven car and he hated the small powerband....

It's in a 10.5:1 331, 1-5/8" & 2-1/2" exhaust, no a/c w/3.55s. Your friend might have different tastes
The cam does not provide a "small" powerband ... I can feel around 6 grand it's pretty much done though, but the thing pulls from about 1800 'til then and hard ... a lot harder 'down low (then the larger 282) I usually shift around 2700 while cruising and the pull (throttle response) below that is much better ... just my taste. Of course the 282 went better up top, but I prefer practical to a car that is always beckoning you to mash it, because down low isn't real grunty.

Scott_95GT · Jun 28, 2005

Heads: AFR 165's
Intake: Eddy Perf. / Gt-40
Cam: Custom w/matching rr's, springs

LT's, Bassani mid-pipe, dyno-tune.

PrimerdFury · Jul 18, 2005

"For reference the AFR185 motor above that made 305rwtq @ 2250rpm made 400 fwhp on an engine dyno like this test then 275rwhp in the car with exhaust and access."

275rwhp seems horrible for an AFR185 headed 347...

IntenseBlue · Jul 18, 2005

Everything sounds good but stay away from the BBK X. I'm not gonna say it's bad, but Bassani/Magnaflow would be better. I'm sure the performance is the same, but I've only heard negative stuff on them, especially soundwise.

Dohc32vMarkVIII · Jul 18, 2005

What are thumper ported heads?? Does someone here port out E7s and sell them?? This sounds perfect for my winter budget build.

_jb_ · Jul 19, 2005

IntenseBlue said:
Everything sounds good but stay away from the BBK X. I'm not gonna say it's bad, but Bassani/Magnaflow would be better. I'm sure the performance is the same, but I've only heard negative stuff on them, especially soundwise.

You haven't looked at exhaust threads then.

What is the best H/C/I combo for a stock

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