Which control arms? adjustable or no?

[Grandmaster]

I'm putting together a list of what i'm gonna buy here in a few days (putting together a drag suspension basiclally) and i'm stumped on upper and lower control arms. I've seen some go for 230-260 (upr, mac, x2c boxer r) but then i see that the x2c boxer st are only 150. I'm a part time working senior in high school so of course i want to make the most of my budget. My goals with the car is probably gonna be low 12s. I'm planning on full suspension, all bolt ons, then probably budget HCI, so i think low 12s is reasonable. Will the x2c boxer STs be ok for this? I really dont know anything about control arms so i'm stumped why the others cost so much. I dont need them to be adjustable (i'd probably just screw that up). The rest of the suspension will be :
Lakewood 90/10s and 50/50s.
Eibach drag launch springs.
Max Cross subframe connectors.

Any advice on which of the above is best for my application or maybe some i over looked is appreciated. BTW its a daily driver.
-E

edit: Should i also look into torque box reinforcements or is that something mostly for cars with more power than what i'm planning? (prolly 300 tops).

 

[Bullit#3441]

Here's my review on the X2C Boxer ST's:
http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=448309&highlight=x2c

Having the torque boxes welded in is good insurance.

 

[Grandmaster]

Awesome! Thanks alot! Guess i'll pick up a set then. With those and the suspension i listed, will it be ok if i remove the quad shocks? Thanks a lot,
-E

 

[v8only]

Do your homework on these. This is a big purchase, and a lot depends on it.

I don't know anything about the above arms. If you have a street driven car, be extra careful NOT to buy arms with poly eurothane on both ends. This will cause binding, will interfere/harm cornering, and eventually rip out your torque boxes. I know that x2c offers a "race" version of their arms that doesn't have poly at both ends, perhaps the above one is that arm.

My personal favorite is the pro3i race/street arms, or the maximum motorsport arms. The max motorsport ones are debateably the best/most popular available. The pro3i arms are essentially a near identical copy of the max motorsports units at a lower cost.

 

[Grandmaster]

Thanks for the tip. These are the ones i'm looking at: http://www.x2cmotorsports.com/cart/shopper.exe?preadd=true&key=124

It says they have Energy suspension bushings. I dont know if they fit into what you said or not. Anyone know?
-E

 

[v8only]

Those are what you don't want, unless you have a strip-only car. Great price on the arms, but for a performance car that will see the corners on driving, you don't want those bushings on both ends. If you want x2c, these arms are supposed to be MUCH better
http://www.x2cmotorsports.com/cart/shopper.exe?preadd=true&key=125

note the difference in bushing design. Spend the extra cash.

I had also mentioned max motorsport or pro3i street/strip arms. You can match those with the cobra uppers from ford, which are about only $50 or so. Any arm will work good, so long as you don't have that bushing on both ends like I mentioned.

EDIT: btw, I think the arms I showed are the ones that the above poster was referring to.

 

[cevtv]

If Metco are considered the best (better be at $400), why do they use poly at both ends - and claim they won't damage the torque boxes from daily driving??

 

[v8only]

If Metco are considered the best (better be at $400), why do they use poly at both ends - and claim they won't damage the torque boxes from daily driving??

That's a damn good point, however, if they have polyeurothane bushings at both ends, and they claim they won't damage the torque boxes, they better damn well either A: have a legit reason why their design has gotten around that idea, or B: have to defend their arms because they are priced so high.

I know nothing about Metco arms. The only explanation I can see is that they have incorporated some revolutionary design into their arms to prevent this binding issue. At $400 I wouldn't doubt it.

However, it doesn't take anything more than a basic search, and some good reading to completely understand why polyeurothane bushings at both ends is bad.

Again, you bring up a valid point, but all things aside, we can all agree that poly bushings is bad for a street driven car, and I would therefore assume, considering the price, that Metco has incorporated a truly unique design into their arms.

 

[Blk91stang]

Poly bushings are fine for a street driven car. I don't know your reasons v8only but I have these on my car, drive on the street all the time, raced on them for 2 years with 1.56 60' times all day long with the stock torque boxes (not even welded) with no problems. Please explain v8only why poly on both ends is such a bad thing? I would think spherical metal bushings would put more stress on the torque boxes hence it being a solid connection with no play in it?

BTW: Get double-adjustable upper control arms with non adjustable lowers!!!! Look on ebay. I found dbl-adj uppers for $120 bucks!! I dont know what non-adj uppers set your pinion angle at but its important to properly set your pinion angle for maximum traction! I went from 1.7's to low 1.5's just by setting my pinion angle with the adjuster! Do it once and do it right!!

 

[millhouse]

Poly bushings are fine for a street driven car. I don't know your reasons v8only but I have these on my car, drive on the street all the time, raced on them for 2 years with 1.56 60' times all day long with the stock torque boxes (not even welded) with no problems. Please explain v8only why poly on both ends is such a bad thing? I would think spherical metal bushings would put more stress on the torque boxes hence it being a solid connection with no play in it?

BTW: Get double-adjustable upper control arms with non adjustable lowers!!!! Look on ebay. I found dbl-adj uppers for $120 bucks!! I dont know what non-adj uppers set your pinion angle at but its important to properly set your pinion angle for maximum traction! I went from 1.7's to low 1.5's just by setting my pinion angle with the adjuster! Do it once and do it right!!

Go here to better understand why poly bushings are not fine for a street driven car---->http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_suspension.htm#Front

Some claim to have fixed the binding issues (maximum motorsports, steeda) by using softer inner bushings with regular poly outers.

 

[Rick 91GT]

I still don't buy into that poly/poly issue, never seen it... We do have the Steeda 3 piece poly bushings on our 93 Cobra and have never had a binding issue on the uppers of lowers, all poly.

The Metco's are very nice solid pieces of aluminum, the bushings are slightly differsnt in the way they install and the have alum spacers that go against the body, and ofcourse grease fittings. I have the lowers with the harder bushing (delrin) option but this is a drag car.


What ever you decide a adj upper, and most prefer the lowers with the heim joint on the body side to help keep some of the lateral stress off of the TQ box. I suggest to everyone that races a car to re-enforce the stock TQ boxes, they are a weak link.

For the ultimate suspension with a very trick set of uppers that relocates the Instant Center and allows full adjustment look at www.teamzmotorsports.net

 

[v8only]

Guys, to igore the poly issue at this point in the mustang game is simply ignorance. It's not even a debateable issue. The truth with poly bushings on a street driven car is that they are bad, will bind, and can/will rip out your torque boxes, and effect cornering. This is fact, not debateable fiction. I got this quote from MFE, who is pretty much the suspension guru over at the corral. Before reading any further, please take the time to fully read what he has to say, I think that this will explain the poly issue fully.

Originally posted by MFE
My Nitto's cut my 60-foot's from 2.2's to a 1.98. I'm sure there's more in it but I'm still re-learning how to get it out of the hole.

As for "binding" here's the short story: The rear end is set up on these cars with near-parallel LCA's and sharply converging UCA's in an effort to ECONOMICALLY control both longitudinal and lateral movement of the axle. It does both acceptably for most average joe's but it does neither well enough for the rest of us. And because of that geometry, the upper control arms MUST change effective length as the axle moves through its range, especially in a corner where one end is higher than another. There is no other way for the axle to articulate. On the stock arms this effective-length change is accomodated by bushings that have compliance. That compliance gets in the way of total axle controol but like I said, something's gotta give.

If the UCA's are changed so that they resist this change in effective length, by using stiff bushings or what have you, then the system will resist articulation but the forces will need to go somewhere and they'll go right into the body structure through your torque boxes, eventually ripping them apart.

Furthermore the LCA's have to rotate about their longitudinal axis as the axle articulates. They simply have to...it's built into the system based on the geometry of the setup. Not only must they rotate this way, they must also move laterally a little bit or the axle won't articulate. If you use a bushing design that resists this rotation and articulation you are adding tremendously to the effective spring rate of the rear end, making it unpredictable and uncomfortable. You also will be asking the body structure to again accomodate forces it was never designed to accomodate, and bye-bye torque boxes on the lower end.

"Bind" is what happens when you've so buggered up the articulation of the system that not only does it not want to compress or articulate but it won't want to extend and straighten out when required. There is some bind built into it right from the factory but when you put non-articulating joints and super stiff bushings in there you only make it worse. Many people confuse the resulting "tightness" with "goodness" but "goodness" is something like what they'll be saying the first time they hit a bump in the middle of an off-ramp.

After all this is said and done, I really don't think any arm short of a virtually unstreetable combo with 90/10 shocks and all that is going to help you much with roll-on traction problems you're having. You're looking for a magic bullet in the rear end that's going to solve that issue and you're not going to get it.

That roll-on traction issue on a truly streetable car comes from nothing other than TIRES. I see you're using DR's...GOOD. What kind of pressures are you running? For max straight-line traction I'd recommend no more than 24 lbs.

 

[Schlodes]

Glad I stumbled onto all this today. I was just about ready to order some rear arms.

So lets say my street driven LX [it's a summer daily driver!!!] goes to the track 4-5 times a year and just wants to hook a bit better. Myabe go from high 1.7s to high 1.6s

I already have ET Drag slicks [26 x 8 1/2"] but other than a removed front sway bar, the rest of the suspension is stone stock with about 100000 miles. Actually the rear shocks are new stock replacements. I cant afford to spend 700 bucks US on a rear suspension kit that "does it right". I wish... but I wanna do heads intake and cam too this season.

I love this car but i'm starting to miss my T Type... cause every time I get all set to buy something after lots of reading up... I come across a horror story backed up by proof, and my plans are blown apart My T Type went low 1.60s on stock suspension...

SOOOOOO... I have a Question..... What if:
I order my torque box supports from Rick, then, just order some Lakewood 90/10 front struts, an Eibach drag launch spring kit, and two air bags. & Instead of new control arms.... add some weight in the trunk, [I have a trunk mount batt kit]. Maybe a Pinion sunbber?

Also I had a weird idea a while back. what if you were to drill two holes right through the lower control arms. In the inside of the control arm, put a properly sized metal shim [basically fill in the gap] then run a good sized bolt through it and tighen it up. I figure if you were to do this near the front and back of the arm, as well as where the sway bar bolts to it, it would help a bit to reinforce it from twisting... no? And cash outlay is very minimum. Or is that a bad idea?

Thanks.