Why do more people get DSS instead of CHP?
- Thread starter Nobody
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95% of the people that I see with DSS kits are the 331. DSS is the only company that heavily markets their 331.
Why?
Well, because people mistakenly believe 331's are superior to 347's.
In the Engine Master Challenge, held annually by Popular Hot Rod Magazine, CHP participates, and this year, did pretty damn well. Oh, BTW, they used all off-the-shelf parts (including camshaft) and did not port their box stock AFR 225 heads.
DSS did not participate.
To me, as an informed consumer, I wouldn't pick DSS for 3 reasons.
1) Not participating in the EMC. Does that reflect that they are embarrassed of their product or that it is inferior?
2) They're marketing 331's to customers, when 99.5% of the customers should be recommended the 347. I can't imagine that extraordinary numbers of people would be going to DSS for their all out race engine where there is a CID limit of ~331.
3) DSS's "Level 20" block.
I won't even go there...
Joe
Why?
Well, because people mistakenly believe 331's are superior to 347's.
In the Engine Master Challenge, held annually by Popular Hot Rod Magazine, CHP participates, and this year, did pretty damn well. Oh, BTW, they used all off-the-shelf parts (including camshaft) and did not port their box stock AFR 225 heads.
DSS did not participate.
To me, as an informed consumer, I wouldn't pick DSS for 3 reasons.
1) Not participating in the EMC. Does that reflect that they are embarrassed of their product or that it is inferior?
2) They're marketing 331's to customers, when 99.5% of the customers should be recommended the 347. I can't imagine that extraordinary numbers of people would be going to DSS for their all out race engine where there is a CID limit of ~331.
3) DSS's "Level 20" block.
I won't even go there...Joe
94-302-vert
Active Member
ALl good points. I have read many good things about CHP and should I ever need and can afford a perfoamce engine that is the route I am going (CHP that is).
Chris
Chris
Very interesting information Joe! Thanks for sharing. It's good to know that CHP is out there proving their stuff.
I talked to a Mustang shop and they said that the reason customers choose the 331 is because of the shorter stroke, you can rev them higher. This makes them good for a centrifugal supercharger.
I talked to a Mustang shop and they said that the reason customers choose the 331 is because of the shorter stroke, you can rev them higher. This makes them good for a centrifugal supercharger.
That is very untrue.Nobody said:
In a 100% race situation, I could see that statement holding true for a limited number of situations.
347's have more piston speed. Piston speed, assuming the cylinder head can handle it, is what makes horsepower.
6000 RPM in a 347 = 3386 ft/min = 6300 RPM in a 331.
I could get a motor made with a Novi 2000 on it where I would shift it at 6000 because that's where peak power would be. It's all in how the motor is designed.
Why spin the snot out of a street car if you could achieve the same piston speed at a lower RPM?
Joe
Car Nut
Founding Member
I've looked into both companies and I'm set on CHP for reasons not mentioned so far:
1. I have to pass emissions, but I want the luxury of a 347. CHP has a 347-e crate motor that is CARB certified. Camee Eldelbrock has a 94/95 GT and she did this upgrade along with Edelbrock heads and an Edelbrock RPM II intake. Both Edelbrock parts are emissions legal. The CHP cam is what does the emissions trick and they are tight-lipped about its specs.
2. CHP has a good reputation and several magazines have rated them equal and above most other similar companies.
Since 347s don't have the oil issue any longer AND I won't be racing mine (except for the rare occassion), I see no problem. Sure, I could build more HP with a 347 in other ways, but I think this will meet my needs. I want the foundation, so I can build on it in the future or at least to just enjoy it.
I'm not sure how the 347 will sound compared to my 302, but to some extent it will make my car more of a "sleeper."
1. I have to pass emissions, but I want the luxury of a 347. CHP has a 347-e crate motor that is CARB certified. Camee Eldelbrock has a 94/95 GT and she did this upgrade along with Edelbrock heads and an Edelbrock RPM II intake. Both Edelbrock parts are emissions legal. The CHP cam is what does the emissions trick and they are tight-lipped about its specs.
2. CHP has a good reputation and several magazines have rated them equal and above most other similar companies.
Since 347s don't have the oil issue any longer AND I won't be racing mine (except for the rare occassion), I see no problem. Sure, I could build more HP with a 347 in other ways, but I think this will meet my needs. I want the foundation, so I can build on it in the future or at least to just enjoy it.
I'm not sure how the 347 will sound compared to my 302, but to some extent it will make my car more of a "sleeper."
lower piston speed actually reduces friction and minimizes pumping losses whcich increases ring seal, coupled with a better rod ratio 331 is a pretty optimal setup. having said that rick anderson uses alot of 347's and says that some engines with crappy rod ratios(347) really work, and when rick anderson speaks i listen. i like high winders so i'll go long rod 306
I've talked to CHP a bunch of times this year. I will be getting one of their motors. In fact they are so detailed the consumer can select everything down to the gaskets and bolts. It's like Burger King, get it your way.
The 331 vs. 347 debate doesn't exist. There are a bunch of internet myth's about oil consumption and such. Those are in the past. Go with the cubic inches.
The 331 vs. 347 debate doesn't exist. There are a bunch of internet myth's about oil consumption and such. Those are in the past. Go with the cubic inches.
Nobody said:
Thats horse crap! An engine will rev as high as the parts ALLOW it to
Ever see the two 8000rpm 347's on Andersonfordmotorsports site? Ricks goes low 10's and mark arnolds goes 9.90's. Many many people choose inferior parts due to what uninformed people say and what marketing gimmicks make you believe.
Yeah, apparently nobody ever machined a block before these guys, huh? Excellent marketing ploy though...I'll give them that.the 347 has a very GOOD rod ratio of 1.58:1 . It's better then several other motor's rod ratio, not the least of which are the 400 small block chevy (1.48:1) and the 454 big block Chevy (1.53:1).
so, unless your're building a crazy drag car... that is not really a factor.
CHP has solved the oil issue, the cubes are where it's at homie.
so, unless your're building a crazy drag car... that is not really a factor.
CHP has solved the oil issue, the cubes are where it's at homie.
All I have ever seen are treads about DSS. Never Coast High Performance.
DSS website sucks. CHP is so much nicer. I have gotten 2 quotes from DSS and they are pretty good on the phone. I will be calling CHP today to work up the same motor.
CHP state's on there website that I can pretty much build a complete motor over the phone down to accesorys, bolts, and oil pumps. "All you have to do is put the engine in a turn the key."
I was hinting tword that from DSS but it didn't seem like they wanted to go down that path. The salesmen wanted to stick with just the long block, then have the shop I would bring it to, pick out the rest of the pasts and build up the rest of it.
DSS website sucks. CHP is so much nicer. I have gotten 2 quotes from DSS and they are pretty good on the phone. I will be calling CHP today to work up the same motor.
CHP state's on there website that I can pretty much build a complete motor over the phone down to accesorys, bolts, and oil pumps. "All you have to do is put the engine in a turn the key."
I was hinting tword that from DSS but it didn't seem like they wanted to go down that path. The salesmen wanted to stick with just the long block, then have the shop I would bring it to, pick out the rest of the pasts and build up the rest of it.
blksn955.o
Founding Member
I called both, when I was looking for long rod 306 info, DSS gave me the best info on the long rod 306 as to the specs DSS does. I am not bashing CHP they seem to be equal in quality for the most part. I believe Anderson Ford Motorsport uses DSS motors.
In the end the fact that I am in St. Louis and DSS is in IL. the shipping was the final factor.
I do agree on the level 20 block though. I can see the point of having all blocks sent threw a CNC for a large output facitly to keep costs down and have good work done but thats about it. If you need a stronger block step up to the X-XL (or whatever) line they have with Dart blocks.
In the end the fact that I am in St. Louis and DSS is in IL. the shipping was the final factor.
I do agree on the level 20 block though. I can see the point of having all blocks sent threw a CNC for a large output facitly to keep costs down and have good work done but thats about it. If you need a stronger block step up to the X-XL (or whatever) line they have with Dart blocks.
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