Why I'll wait for the SVT Mustang

tommyg · Jan 20, 2004

I couldn't be more stoked about the new Mustang coming to market. I have owned three Mustangs in my lifetime, but haven't owned one in over 10 years (my first car was a '65 Mustang purchased in 1986. I subsequently owned an '87 LX 5.0 and an '88 GT Convertible). I think the new Mustang brings a lot to the table that has been lacking in the current model. It's enough to turn my attention away from the new 'vette and the new z, especially since I like the fact that the new 'stang will have a back seat.

That being said, I'm waiting for the SVT version to buy. I understand that Ford is really trying to make this Mustang viable for the masses with a low cost point, but I'm not spending dough on a new sports car without a 6 speed manual, and an independent rear suspension. 300 hp is great, but straightaway is only half the equation, and without an irs, i find it hard to believe that this car will handle like a true performance automobile. If the SVT version has a 6 speed, irs, and in the 350-400 hp range, sign me up right now, i'll take one...

2kflamedlude · Jan 20, 2004

tommyg said:
I couldn't be more stoked about the new Mustang coming to market. I have owned three Mustangs in my lifetime, but haven't owned one in over 10 years (my first car was a '65 Mustang purchased in 1986. I subsequently owned an '87 LX 5.0 and an '88 GT Convertible). I think the new Mustang brings a lot to the table that has been lacking in the current model. It's enough to turn my attention away from the new 'vette and the new z, especially since I like the fact that the new 'stang will have a back seat.

That being said, I'm waiting for the SVT version to buy. I understand that Ford is really trying to make this Mustang viable for the masses with a low cost point, but I'm not spending dough on a new sports car without a 6 speed manual, and an independent rear suspension. 300 hp is great, but straightaway is only half the equation, and without an irs, i find it hard to believe that this car will handle like a true performance automobile. If the SVT version has a 6 speed, irs, and in the 350-400 hp range, sign me up right now, i'll take one...

It wont be cheap.. Looks to pay 36k and up.

(&) · Jan 20, 2004

I can't afford the SVT, so I might have to wait for another special edition that comes with the IRS. I don't see the 6 speed as a big deal.

On the other hand, I'm going to test drive the GT with the ox-cart axle, because who knows, maybe I'll be very impressed. With a good chassis, and the Flintstone-mobile suspension set up properly, it may surprise us how well it can handle, even on rough surfaces. There's really no modern cars out there with a solid axle (and there is a reason for that), so the full potential hasn't really been seen. I wouldn't be surprised if the new Mustang outhandled most of the cars in its class. But I'm probably being too optimistic because I really like the car except for that one issue.

Mach460 · Jan 20, 2004

I'm really torn right now. I love the new 05 Mustang and really want to own one....but I'm really turned off by the fact that it doesn't have IRS. I can't buy a Cobra simply because 45,000 is WAY beyond my means, and any special edition Mustang is going to be a limited run and a still fairly, expensive 35,000 plus Mustang.

I really don't have any hope for the aftermarket to help me out, it's all geared for the straightliners, and any IRS systems would be more expensive than a factory unit. Plus....despite the fact that the IRS was offered in the 99-03 Cobra, the aftermarket has been dead in this segment. Any IRS I would want would have to come off a junked Cobra. And I don't see the aftermarket catering to people who want to fit an IRS in their GT's.

My only hope is to pray that Ford offers it in the FRPP catalog at a reasonable price, or Ford finally sees the light and makes it standard (or at least optional) in the future. I may just wait a couple of years, pay off my 2000 GT, finish my 66, and see what happens in a couple of years.

PimpDaddyGT · Jan 20, 2004

tommyg said:
I couldn't be more stoked about the new Mustang coming to market. I have owned three Mustangs in my lifetime, but haven't owned one in over 10 years (my first car was a '65 Mustang purchased in 1986. I subsequently owned an '87 LX 5.0 and an '88 GT Convertible). I think the new Mustang brings a lot to the table that has been lacking in the current model. It's enough to turn my attention away from the new 'vette and the new z, especially since I like the fact that the new 'stang will have a back seat.

That being said, I'm waiting for the SVT version to buy. I understand that Ford is really trying to make this Mustang viable for the masses with a low cost point, but I'm not spending dough on a new sports car without a 6 speed manual, and an independent rear suspension. 300 hp is great, but straightaway is only half the equation, and without an irs, i find it hard to believe that this car will handle like a true performance automobile. If the SVT version has a 6 speed, irs, and in the 350-400 hp range, sign me up right now, i'll take one...

I'm really excited about the new Stang as well. I traded my '98 GT Vert last summer in on a '01 Navigator for my wife knowing that I would buy a new Stang in '06. I'd love to say I will be getting a Cobra, but with all the info I have seen and heard, I believe it will be in the 45K range. Granted it will have a lot more power, it simply puts it out of my budget. I am going to hopefully be able to get into one of the "limited" models that will hopefully be in the current 03/04 Cobra price range.

Eric

Car Nut · Jan 20, 2004

If the Cobra does go beyond the $40K mark, I won't worry a bit about seeing it very often. Heck, I see Cobras every now and then, but at a higher price they will be almost scarce.

As stated above, a special edition Mustang will do just fine since they should offer at least 350hp. Even a GT is not out of the question, because my bone stock 94 GT doesn't even come close due to the costs needed to get there. Most stangs are out of warranty once they've been paid off, so all the mods are done at the responsibility of the owner/installer. NOW, Ford will offer me a GT in a similar price range AND it will come standard with 300hp which would have cost me thousands otherwise to acheive. 300hp under a full warranty is a nice thought, even if a GT is not the fastest. At least now I can buy a GT that should beat most 4-door sedans.

I'll probably lease Mustangs from here on out, so that I can get a new one every three years and enjoy the power increases with each car.

Omegalock · Jan 20, 2004

Car Nut said:
If the Cobra does go beyond the $40K mark, I won't worry a bit about seeing it very often. Heck, I see Cobras every now and then, but at a higher price they will be almost scarce.

As stated above, a special edition Mustang will do just fine since they should offer at least 350hp. Even a GT is not out of the question, because my bone stock 94 GT doesn't even come close due to the costs needed to get there. Most stangs are out of warranty once they've been paid off, so all the mods are done at the responsibility of the owner/installer. NOW, Ford will offer me a GT in a similar price range AND it will come standard with 300hp which would have cost me thousands otherwise to acheive. 300hp under a full warranty is a nice thought, even if a GT is not the fastest. At least now I can buy a GT that should beat most 4-door sedans.

I'll probably lease Mustangs from here on out, so that I can get a new one every three years and enjoy the power increases with each car.

Or you could get an 04 Mach for like dirt dirt cheap in about 6 months.

Rootus · Jan 20, 2004

Omegalock said:
Or you could get an 04 Mach for like dirt dirt cheap in about 6 months.

Buy a fox-based Mustang again?

Dave

Omegalock · Jan 20, 2004

If my ship comes in(i.e. a freakin job!)I'm seriously considering getting an 05 and then buying a used 03 or 04 Mach to make into my drag car....that or screw it all and buy where my heart is really at and get a new Lightning.

Mach428 · Jan 20, 2004

I really don't get what the big huge deal is with IRS. You can still go 25+ the recomended speed in turns with the current GT. Why would someone really need to double the speeds in turns on the street, can anyone explain that to me? I rather sacrafice the IRS for more power. Who wants to romp on the gas in a turn? Flying around turns on the street in my eyes is simply reckless driving. The soild axle is just fine for me, if you want to fly around turns buy a STI or Evo. I rather have the straight line thrill cause the street is no place to fly aorund turns. And as far as auto X is concerned, how many people who buy a mustang actually auto x, just think about it.

Mach460 · Jan 20, 2004

Mach428 said:
I really don't get what the big huge deal is with IRS. You can still go 25+ the recomended speed in turns with the current GT. Why would someone really need to double the speeds in turns on the street, can anyone explain that to me? I rather sacrafice the IRS for more power. Who wants to romp on the gas in a turn? Flying around turns on the street in my eyes is simply reckless driving. The soild axle is just fine for me, if you want to fly around turns buy a STI or Evo. I rather have the straight line thrill cause the street is no place to fly aorund turns. And as far as auto X is concerned, how many people who buy a mustang actually auto x, just think about it.

Depends on your taste. It's not like I'm going to go bombing down Main Street U.S.A, do a handbrake U-Turn in front of the Police Station and fishtail into the Wal-Mart parking lot. I think most of us are responsible enough to know when to push the car and when not to.

But there's a rush and exhiliration on an lightly traveled back country road with nice fast turns. The thrill of hitting the perfect apex and slowly drifting the car out....or doing the perfect powerslide, using the throttle to get the perfect line off a hairpin.

And surprisingly enough...there are more Mustangs doing Autocross than you might think (I've been an SCCA member for the last 8 years)...they just don't get a lot of coverage because all the mags are geared for the drag racers.

Ron Jeremy · Jan 20, 2004

I also don't care much about the IRS rear suspension. If Ford can build one for the GT that's affordable I wouldn't mind. But most of us in here know very well that the price on the GT will SKYROCKET if it comes equipped with IRS. I think that IRS should only be an option for the GT. I don't think that many people who will be buying the Mustang GT will want to pay an extra $2,000-$3,000 for IRS. I think that this is how much it costs. That's too expensive. If IRS could cost only $400 - $500, I think that a lot more Mustang GT buyers would want to buy it. But as long as it's expensive, nobody will want to buy it. I know that I wouldn't.

Mach460 · Jan 20, 2004

Ron Jeremy said:
I also don't care much about the IRS rear suspension. If Ford can build one for the GT that's affordable I wouldn't mind. But most of us in here know very well that the price on the GT will SKYROCKET if it comes equipped with IRS. I think that IRS should only be an option for the GT. I don't think that many people who will be buying the Mustang GT will want to pay an extra $2,000-$3,000 for IRS. I think that this is how much it costs. That's too expensive. If IRS could cost only $400 - $500, I think that a lot more Mustang GT buyers would want to buy it. But as long as it's expensive, nobody will want to buy it. I know that I wouldn't.

Nobody really knows how much the IRS would add to the cost of the car. It's all speculation. All we can do is make educated, if albeit speculative, guesses as to what the costs will be. We do know that according to Ford, it only costs $300 to engineer the IRS for the Mustang. To say it will "SKYROCKET" is somewhat disingenious.

KidTwist51 · Jan 20, 2004

"I'm going to test drive the GT with the ox-cart axle"

LOL

That's funny, I never saw an SVT product on the Oregon Trail. Just a lot of gravesites of dead bankers from Boston and Indians helping you across rivers.

-Chris

Ron Jeremy · Jan 20, 2004

If it only costs $300 to engineer, then why wouldn't Ford have the IRS as an option for the Mustang GT? If Ford can sell the IRS as an option for $400-$500 then they will make $100-$200 profit for each one that they sell and more Mustang nuts would buy this for their Mustang GT's.

But I don't see Ford wanting to charge $400-$500 for the IRS. I see Ford wanting to charge more like $1,000+ for something like this. And I wouldn't give them a nickel for it if they charged that much for it.

KidTwist51 · Jan 20, 2004

They ended up using the IRS from the Cobra on the Explorer, slightly modified, obviously. I'd be willing to bet the IRS becomes optional in the near future. Couple things to consider: With the advances in traction control and tire technology, cars are going back to RWD. Cadillac has made it well-known that all their new models from now on will be so. More and more cars are going to demand IRS for ride quality purposes, not gunning it out of a corner, but the result will be the Mustang will probably get it anyways because it's an option Ford will be able to slap on with very little development costs. At least this is my guess... it makes sense. If all the above becomes true and we already know the Cobra IRS was 100 lbs. lighter than the solid rear axle, they're most likely gonna take a good, hard look at it, and probably at least make it an option.

-Chris

Mach460 · Jan 20, 2004

KidTwist51 said:
They ended up using the IRS from the Cobra on the Explorer, slightly modified, obviously. I'd be willing to bet the IRS becomes optional in the near future. Couple things to consider: With the advances in traction control and tire technology, cars are going back to RWD. Cadillac has made it well-known that all their new models from now on will be so. More and more cars are going to demand IRS for ride quality purposes, not gunning it out of a corner, but the result will be the Mustang will probably get it anyways because it's an option Ford will be able to slap on with very little development costs. At least this is my guess... it makes sense. If all the above becomes true and we already know the Cobra IRS was 100 lbs. lighter than the solid rear axle, they're most likely gonna take a good, hard look at it, and probably at least make it an option.

-Chris

No...the IRS in the Explorer is a totally different system. Being an engineer...I was fascinated by it, so I crawled around underneath my girlfriend's 2002 Explorer when she got it. I compared it to the Cobra and it's totally different (even though it uses the same 8.8 carrier), but the lay out is different.

The IRS in the Cobra was fashioned after the IRS used by Saleen in his Le Mans and SCCA race cars. The 2005 Mustang is based on the DEW98 chassis used by the Lincoln LS, Jaguar S-Type, and the T-Bird, which has it owns proprietary IRS system.

The advantages of having the IRS in a Mustang chassis designed for it would be incredible.

KidTwist51 · Jan 21, 2004

I stand corrected. My buddy's dad is a service manager at a Ford dealer and told me it's the same. I'll thank him for embarassing me next time i see him, haha.

-Chris

Ron Jeremy · Jan 21, 2004

I drove the 2003 Explorer last year. Its IRS that it has makes the Explorer have a smoother ride. Almost like it floats on air. I hope that the Ford Mustang and the Cobra don't feel like driving a full size luxury Cadillac if they ever put an IRS in them or if they offer the IRS as an option. The last thing that we need is a Mustang to have the air coushion ride of the Cadillac Deville. As an airline pilot, I always experience the floating sensation when I'm inside the cockpit flying the Airbus. I don't need the same here with the Mustang or Cobra if the IRS feels the same way.

Mach460 · Jan 21, 2004

KidTwist51 said:
I stand corrected. My buddy's dad is a service manager at a Ford dealer and told me it's the same. I'll thank him for embarassing me next time i see him, haha.

-Chris

Here's a drawing of the Cobra IRS

Courtesy of Stangnet

And here's the Explorer's

Courtesy of Edmunds

You can see the Explorer's is connected directly to the frame, whereas the Cobra's uses a cradle. You can also see that the Explorer uses coil overs. and the angle of the coilover shock assembly leans in a bit more than the Cobras. You can also the Cobra's forward attachment points (where the lower trailing arsm would connect on the live axle model) allow for some vertical movement, but the Explorer's is rigidly attached. Again...all that is because the Cobra IRS was designed to fit into a chassi not designed for it.

Having driven the Explorer and compared it to previous gen Explorers, the IRS definitely has made an improvement in ride and handling, though more geared towards comfort than enthusiatic driving.

Why I'll wait for the SVT Mustang

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