With rear LCAs & UCAs sloppyness rumor true? what to do...panhand bar?

[91LX_5L]

Well I guess I didnt do enough research before installing my MM Standard LCAs and Steeda UCAs (same as FRPP) that adding aftermarket uppers makes the ass end feel sloppy and can be unpredictable and dangerous.

Now would adding a panhand bar eliminate this and actaully make my car handle better then it would in stock rear end form?

Thanks,
Matt

 

[94-302-vert]

I have poly in my stock LCA and i have some aftermarket uppers with poly at both ends. It feels great. no movement at all. However I can say that I have not found the point that people talk about where the rear end will jsut kick out all at once when cornering either. I think the difference is in using enough grease on the poly bushings...

 

[ES Stangin]

This thread should give you some insight..

http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27744&highlight=upper+arms

 

[95riosnake]

I would think the panhard would definitely tighten things up alot. I want to get one when funds allow. The only problem I've heard is that you run into clearance problems sometimes when running it with tail pipes. I might be getting it confused with a steeda 5-link or a watts link though, so maybe someone else can confirm.

I know for sure you have to modify the tails if you wanna run a Steeda 5-link or a watts link, not 100% sure on the p/h bar.

 

[bimmertech]

i run a hpm phb with a edelbrock 2.5" catback with tailpipes--no clearance problem.

if you want to track your car then yes get a torque arm or 3-link(if you are worried about crashing).

the "bind" in the uca's is very misunderstood. the bind is a result of the uca's controling lateral movement then hitting a bump and not moving in a controlled arc.

the uca itself is not as critical as the bushing material. factory bushings are preffered, as they will allow the least resitance in the up down travel while laterally located.

the panhard bar will reduce lateral loading so the uca will move more freely up-down.

long story short--phb GOOD, poly bushings in the uca/diff BAD.

 

[91LX_5L]

well the Steeda/FRPP dont have poly bushings do they in the uppers? I dont take my car to the track but I love rippin up the back roads and last thing i wanna do is lose control.

thanks any more advice?

 

[Methodical]

I talked to a rep at Maximum Motorsport (Matt I think) and he told me that the stock UCA is best left alone unless I plan to go with a pan hard bar and torque inwhich case I could discard the UCAs. I've been researching the LCA and UCA and glad to have come across your post. This will save me some headaches. I think that I am going to just get the LCAs for now along with the coil over kit (front and rear) and hopefully that's all I will need to satisfy my quench.

Peace

 

[ES Stangin]

When I actually get around to upgrading my suspension I am going to run the Panhard bar and the Poor Mans 3 Link (PM3L) until I can afford the TA. Basically you remove the left UCA and leave in the right. I havent read of any ill effects with anyone doing it and it definately removes the bind.

 

[Green 94 5.0]

talk about a coincidence. i just bought steeda upper and lower control arms. my stock stuff is in pretty bad shape so i am going to put them in. my question is, would replacing the poly bushings on the axle side of the UCA's with spherical bushings take care of the binding problem described in these threads?

 

[blksn955.o]

I have ssm bars as lowers...and stock uppers.

The MUCH stiffer lowers make the stock uppers that much worse. The bushings in mine were way way soft. I swapped in a buddies stock uppers off his 00gt that had like 15k miles on them, after 1 day those bushings were toast as well. I plan to put energy bushings in the uppers and box them or buy some double adj. ones along with putting stiffer bushings in the axle housing as well...

With the lowers you can tell the uppers are for lat. load as the side to side movement is much more abvious. Lifting off the gas and getting into it you can feel the "shimmy" of the load put on them. At the least I would upgrade the uppers bushings with any aftermarket lower.

 

[ES Stangin]

I think it would be less noticeable, since the spherical bearings would allow movement unlike the bushings.

 

[VibrantRedGT]

I'm uneasy about this subject. Lateral movement is minimal with poly's over a stock rubber bushing. If you were to replace the lowers and not the uppers then this theory would make sense. I haven't noticed any bind anytime since installing the Steeda stuff. I use to AutoX all the time. Yea I'm sure some bushings are better then others (classify caster/camber plates in the mix) but after removing the stock control arms you'll feel better about replacing them. Especially since the stamp steel design is flimsy as hell.

 

[blk9450]

from MM's site:
'" Do NOT use urethane in the upper arms to improve the side to side motion of the axle. Because of the three dimensional movement of the upper arms, severe binding will be induced as the suspension moves--with or without a Panhard bar. This effect may not be evident in a drag-only car, but if you plan to drive the car on the street at all, we do not recommend urethane in the upper arms (see the Rear Lower Control Arm section for more information).""

 

[blksn955.o]

so would that mean that swapping to energy susp. bushings would be bad...

I would think the energy susp. bushings would be able to handle the added "stress" better and longer than the crappy stocker soft ones. Do they mean the ROCK hard poly or polyurethane bushings...after all you can get preaty confused on the thane' thing as some are rock hard and some are just more durable than stock like the energy susp. bits.

From my findings, tested and repeated. The stock bushings just wont hold up as they will deform and loose their stiffness or whatever you want to call it...while the stock replacements were good it drove perfect...just once they were fatigued(sp?) they were toast.

 

[The Red Monster]

Hey im just putting the BBK Upper and Lower Control arms in my 95, do you think putting both of them in will have any bind???????????

got it for a good price and they both worked great on my friends car... ????

thnx, Conrad

 

[ES Stangin]

If improved straight-line (dragstrip) performance is your primary goal, the stock rubber upper & lower control arm bushings can be replaced with solid polyurethane bushings or spherical bearings. Hard bushings/bearings eliminate wheel hop, reduce axle deflection, and improve rear end grip. The downside of solid poly bushings is that they prevent the necessary movement of control arms during body roll, which in turn produces significant suspension bind in turns. Spherical bearings do a better (but still imperfect) job of handling control arm motion during turns. And they also tend to transmit a lot of road noise and vibration into the car.

If you use your car in open track or autocross competition, you'll probably want to leave the stock upper control arms alone and install only new lower control arms. The stock rubber bushings in the upper arms continue to allow the axle to articulate through its full range of motion in turns, while the new lower arms improve axle location. One popular lower arm design (illustrated below) uses segmented poly bushings on the chassis end and spherical bearings on the axle end. This combination has been found to improve rear axle location without any significant increase in suspension bind.

That is from the late model mustang suspension guide. Really it all depends on the goal for you vehicle.

 

[blksn955.o]

From personal exp. I would dis-agree with that statement about aftermarket lowers and stock uppers....

like posted in an above post my susp. was stock upper with aftermarket lower. The straight line is ok...if you can keep it in a straight line as the getting on and off the gas "wiggles" the car and it gets worse as speed goes up.

Now when I replaced my stock uppers with some "new" low mile stock uppers I was playing around with the stock bushings. On my factory stock uppers that were trash I could take a scewdriver and move with ease the bushing...it felt like a marshmellow(sp?). When doing the same thing to the "new" low mile stock uppers I could only get VERY little movement out of the bushing. While driving with the "new" low mile uppers it was great....but the bushings after a day or so of avg. driving were now as soft as the factory stock ones I took off. The bushings just do not seem to be able to withstand the abuse of a better LCA for long.

From my reading/findings the solid spher. bushings are the BIG bind issue ones, the hard plastic/no give poly bushings...like the neoprene(sp?) or whatever hard (like pvc plastic hard) are not much better. Also that body roll gets realy more of how harsh of a ride you want. Softer (energy susp.) poly bushings alow for some body roll but still make it a flater feel as body roll is not the best for handleing as it messes with the spring/wheel contact patch. The trade off is more road "feel" or noise from the road as it is being transmitted into the body. I always get the feeling that susp. companies that are selling UCA/LCA make blanket statements and it is more of an area of grey. Like you said its the use/app.