World Heads on a 302 need input

[65fastbackresto]

basically stock bottom end, stock pistons, motor is balanced.

My builder is wanting me to use 202 intake valves and 1.60 exhaust with a stage 2 cam. 200 cc flow.

Does this sound right to you guys?

I think they are the windsor sr`s.

 

[SoCalCruising]

World Sr. heads are arguably the poorest flowing 200cc aftermarket head. 200cc is also too large for a 302 that (you didn't say, but) will be a street machine. If he has these already, then he may just be trying to unload them. Also, if he offers to port them, then they get even bigger than the already-too-big 200cc. For a primarily street driven 302 with stage 1 or 2 cam you want something in the 165 - 185cc range. AFR 165s (1.90" valve), Twisted Wedge (170cc runners, 2.02" valve), the small Canfield head (??) would all be fine, IMHO. BTW, If you have a REALLY stock bottom end, meaning stock factory or factory replacement pistons, the valve reliefs in those are too small for a 2.02" valve.

 

[65fastbackresto]

I dont know alot but...

My engine builder made me a little apprehensive when he mentioned the 202 intake valves, said he was gonna used a dished piston to compensate for the larger valve.
Isn`t lower compression kinda defeating the purpose of having a good flowing head?

 

[Sicarius428]

I would opt for AFR, TFS, or Edelbrocks. From your other post AFR sounds a bit out of your budget. TFS is the best bang for the buck with a lot of potential to be opened up down the road if you change the rest of your setup. Edelbrocks are also a good head too. The TFS is the only option without notching your stock pistons with a 2.02 intake valve. I absolutely love mine. If you are going to have an auto, stick with the stage 1 unless you are going to change your stall converter to accomodate it. A 200cc head is bridging on 351/stroker area for a street motor.
Kevin

 

[SoCalCruising]

Yes. And a big-runner head will be lazy in the low RPM range, making it much less fun on the street. You want a 54-58cc combustion chamber and flat-top pistons. Valve relief will range from 4cc to about 6cc, depending on style and manufacturer. If aftermarket pistons with large valve reliefs will be used, then you can use the 2.02" valve. In the TW head, velocity is still good with 2.02" valve, and the runners are the right size. If you can po for them, though, the AFRs are about the best around for the money. If you keep the cam under .550" lift, you can use them box-stock. If you use a roller cam with more lift, most any head will require better springs and an upgrade to 7/16" rocker studs.

Agree that the Edelbrock heads would also be fine. They offer them in 1.90" and 2.02" intake valves.

Tell us more about how the car will be used.

 

[Sicarius428]

You stated in your other post that you want 300hp which shouldn't be a problem. The difference is for a street motor where the 300hp is. You probably will want more low to mid range power than some of these high rpm high output motors benchmark.
Kevin

 

[180 Out]

What's not too like? Low port velocity combined with low static compression. Sounds just right -- for a dump truck.

In your other thread I believe you mentioned this guy does mostly Chevys. The 2.02" intake valve has been standard issue on hi-po Chevys since about 1964. All the "camel hump" and "fuelie" heads you read and hear about had the 2.02" intakes. That's what the 302 ci '67-'69 Z/28s used. So I'm guessing an old school Chevy guy is thinking 302 ci and 2.02" intakes are not incompatible. The thing is, those Z/28s and the other solid lifter small blocks -- 327/365 hp, 327/375 hp -- would hit 7000 rpm in stock form. But they weren't too strong on the bottom end. A Z could get beat stoplight to stoplight by a VW if you didn't know what you were doing.

BTW, "200 cc" refers to the volume of the intake port, from the manifold surface to the valve seat. "CFM" refers to flow, and it varies according to valve lift. 300 cfm @ 0.500" lift is a pretty good number for a small block head. But you also need to know that port velocity is important too; a high cfm with a low velocity will feel soggy.

 

[65fastbackresto]

This car is just for fun

I dont race or anything, I just want to be able to smoke a tire and maybe scratch 2nd gear sometimes. I got a guy building me a C-4 tranny with a stage 3 shift kit. Got a 8 inch rear with really low gears, dont know how low but the thing only runs like 85 wide open with this 6 banger pushing it.

I need help guys, I want something I`m not gonna have to rebuild in a year or two, and it aint like I can stand on the gas everytime I drive it. This shouldn`t be this hard, but when I, knowing next to nothing, have to question my engine builder on how he is doing thing......this aint right.

 

[65fastbackresto]

I think I`ll just pop for the AFR`s

Should I get the 165`s or 185`s?

 

[SoCalCruising]

If you pop for a long block from one of the reputable shops (e.g., CHP, DSS, Speedo-o-Motive) then you will benefit from guys with huge experience in building Ford motors. Heads, cam, rotating assy, intake (if you opt for it), etc. are all scienced out already. Just tell them what you are looking for in performance. Speed-o-Motive has lots of experience and I have never heard anything bad about them. They are in SoCal (West Covina, I think). They have lots of options - low-buck to high-dollar.

 

[rbohm]

i am going to use the windsor jr heads. the smaller ports and valves are just right for the 302.

 

[SoCalCruising]

No argument with the Jrs., especially of the bowls and ports are cleaned up.

 

[65fastbackresto]

I just hung up with Speed o Motive

Man they know their stuff, checking now to see if any of this stuff is in my price range.

 

[Sicarius428]

It really shouldn't be this hard at all. I am really sorry you are getting mixed messages between us and your builder. I think all of us are on the same page as far as the ideal engine build for you. We are really questioning your builder's ability to build a ford engine. We really don't want you to be disappointed with your new engine and most of us have already done the trial and error on these parts to know which direction to go now. A simple good proven build would be a HO roller motor(refreshed and bored to 306), TFS, AFR 165, Edelbrock heads, Stage 1, Wiend stealth intake and a 600cfm ish carb.

 

[Sicarius428]

Also check out Rick from www.rnhperformance.com . He is huge in the 5.0 area and knows his stuff with great feedback.
Kevin

 

[65fastbackresto]

Ok now we are getting somewhere

I dont think the builder knows fords either, however, if I carry him the parts he`ll have to build it with what I bring. I have no doubt he is good at building, i just think he is using chevy knowledge on a ford, and it aint jiving very well. Even the guy at speed o motive questioned the dished piston with the world iron head. Allthough, he did say the iron heads are superior in performance because they hold the heat in the cylinder which keeps the compression higher.

Yea I`m getting a little discouraged but...if it was easy everybody could do it, I`ll tough it out.

I want to thank you guys for your help, and as my dad says, "the smartest man in the world is one that can learn from another mans mistakes"

BTW, how would I know a HO block from a regular block, I dont always beleive what I hear at salvage yards.

It really shouldn't be this hard at all. I am really sorry you are getting mixed messages between us and your builder. I think all of us are on the same page as far as the ideal engine build for you. We are really questioning your builder's ability to build a ford engine. We really don't want you to be disappointed with your new engine and most of us have already done the trial and error on these parts to know which direction to go now. A simple good proven build would be a HO roller motor(refreshed and bored to 306), TFS, AFR 165, Edelbrock heads, Stage 1, Wiend stealth intake and a 600cfm ish carb.

 

[Sicarius428]

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=674480&highlight=roller+block
here is some good info.
Kevin

 

[65fastbackresto]

I just talked to a guy at Pick a part

Local salvage yard, he has what he says is a good motor in a wrecked 95 mustang gt, wants $750 for it. I read the thread that sicarious gave me, but I still dont know how to tell if its a HO, the guy at the salvage yard didnt know either.

Just exactly what is the advantage on having a HO block? I`m changing intake, heads and stuff anyway.

 

[SoCalCruising]

The HO block has longer lifter bores making it compatible with hydraulic roller cams. The block is also tapped for the "spider" used to hold the lifters in their bores. The rest is substantially the same, except for the imbalance factor being 50oz - early blocks use 28oz. You will also need to decide about fuel pumps. The HO motor uses an electric pump. If you want to use a mechanical pump, you will have to swap out the front cover for one with a boss for the mech. pump. Otherwise, you can plum in an electric pump and return line.

 

[Sicarius428]

The only reason I suggest a HO block is because they are plentiful and you can use an arsenal of off the shelf cams. Overall besides the roller cam there wasn't any significant changes for almost 30 years block wise. The rotating assembly as stated above did change balance. There are over a million 5.0 mustangs with roller blocks, it should be pretty easy to get ahold of one. A 1995 or 1985+ doesn't matter if you are going to get it freshened up anyways. It is true that cast heads will net a tad more power but the trade off is 50 more lbs over your front tires. I personally would take advantage of how light the 66 is and try to keep it as light as possible. For a 300hp street motor the additional hp would be insignificant if even noticeable. You can probably net more with an electric fan.
Kevin