Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.

[CarMichael Angelo]

You know Mike, now that you are a genius, you're much harder to get ahold of.

Ok, Panic time.....
I knew that the stuff I was spraying was polyurethane primer.

I'm sure you've heard of Matrix. Whether it's good or bad, that's what it is.

But after reading your posts, I ran into the basement.

Oh sht.

I did in fact use reducer instead of the poly activator that was included.

Here is the can that was provided, that I did not add to that paint.

Maybe what I thought was water is some sort of reaction instead? Will this stuff dry? What happens when it's reduced as opposed to being hardened?

How could I be so stupid?

The flat spot between the scoops has been the problem for the entirety of this ordeal. The whole freakin' center riib has been for that matter. There are/were two small dents right on the rib that lowered the whole crown. Adding the welded scoops has made restoring the crown damn near impossible. I've been dickin' with that rib from day one.

 

[a91what]

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

Why are you pokin?

 

[a91what]

I did the same thing....... then just got single stage pre mixed enamel paint and didn't add flex additive..... cracked paint on the bumpers.

I feel your pain.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

Ok......while waiting for the "paint guy" to respond, I went online with that very query. I asked the question. Seems I'm not the only one to pull a bonehead stunt like this.

I read some people stating that the primer will have to come back off,...stating that it'll never dry.

I just went down there and dry blocked a section, and it sanded as good as any other part where I mixed the stuff right.

Tomorrow, I'll still carry on with the plan.....using the existing applied primer base as a leveling base. The final topcoat will be hardened.

Why.........why is this car sooo hard....

 

[Davedacarpainter]

Ok......while waiting for the "paint guy" to respond, I went online with that very query. I asked the question. Seems I'm not the only one to pull a bonehead stunt like this.

I read some people stating that the primer will have to come back off,...stating that it'll never dry.

I just went down there and dry blocked a section, and it sanded as good as any other part where I mixed the stuff right.

Tomorrow, I'll still carry on with the plan.....using the existing applied primer base as a leveling base. The final topcoat will be hardened.

Why.........why is this car sooo hard....

Sorry about not being there again Mike, I get up at 3:30 so I try to get in bed by 9:00-9:30. Sometimes I'll stay up later, not last night.
So, didn't add the activator?
First off, nothing wrong with Matrix.
Second, it will dry.
Third, you'll want to sand it all off.
Remember what happened to @Boosted92LX and his bondo on his roof? Look at your primer as liquid bondo with smaller molecules.
Leave a can of bondo open, it'll dry. Put it on a panel with no hardener, it'll dry enough to sand if you let it set long enough.
Given any time, and especially heat and humidity change, it'll bubble up and peel away from the panel you apply it too. It will shrink and swell on the panel with the heat/humidity, as opposed to primer that has catalyzed (that becomes hardened) where the individual molecules are bound together.
The hardening process when the molecules are cross linking together help in adhesion to your sanded substrate, think of the catalyzing primer soaking into all those little scratches and cavities where it's molecules cross link and bond to your hood, not just lay there dried on top of the surface. That's one of the big reasons that we use two part eurethane based products now.
You're not the first cowboy at that rodeo Mike, speaking from experience here. you'll want to take it off.
Without the hardener all it will do is dry, it won't catalyze, as a dried chemical designed to be catalyzed, It will absorb other fluids very easily, especially water/humidity.
It'll act like a grey sponge. The humidity will go through it to the metal below(bad). +the chemicals in your topcoat will soak through it totally degrading any efficiency as a primer coat.
Luckily, all you have done is the hood. It really won't take that long to get rid of. Plus this opens the opportunity to work on the middle rib.
Test a small area of the hood to see what effect a rag with lacquer thinner will have. This will be far messier than sanding, obviously. If it's pretty heavy on there, you might sand with something heavier to speed up the process initially, like 80 grit. finish removing it with nothing heavier than 180.
The lacquer thinner won't have an adverse effect on the under lying bondo as long as you're not soaking it heavily, it's been hardened so it won't wash it away, but left on the open bondo, the thinner is a strong enough chemical to break down the cross linked bond of the filler. Nothing to get overly excited about there, just don't soak it down heavily. If nothing else, use the thinner to wipe away the last remnants of the primer.
It seems like bad news, but it's real news Mike. You've worked waaaaay to hard on this cool car to just say to hell with this issue. Like I was saying, it won't take that long to fix. Maybe a couple blown hours and it'll be fixed. Best lessons learned are the hardest to learn.
As for the rib, if I were you, when I got all of that damned primer off, I would sand the smoother area with a heavy grit sand paper(36 grit) and build it with bondo(you'll want to give a strong scratch for the bondo to bond).
The hood looks straight through there, it just needs that body line. It's kind of late in the process to metal shape that area, though you could try.
The bondo will be fine there as long as you give it a deep scratch to bond too. Only real reason it would be a problem would be when you go out in the woods four wheeling, the jarring around could cause it to break loose.
Ok, I'll check my phone at work to answer any other questions that I can. Plus I do work at a body shop, I have other sources for info too(bodywork).
I'm going to go work on Doby for awhile, I'll check my phone around six if you have any early questions.

 

[Davedacarpainter]

I'm off to work, I'll check the .net between coats of paint.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

I'm off to work, I'll check the .net between coats of paint.

Well,.....Thanks for that. Just the news I wanted to hear.
It all has to come back off huh? I'm telling you at this rate........Can you even imagine how many hours,.....between the first version with the Cyclone scoops (that was done twice), to this thing where I have been working on just the freakin HOOD?

I'll bet it's 40......maybe even twice that.

The same bad news, everywhere I looked. It will dry, but wont completely "cure". As for me, I checked last night,...it has dried (and become hard enough) to actually sand. And it seems to be soft enough to sand like it'll go fairly quick. Regardless, I don't know whether or not I got the mental fortitude to mess with that today,.....I wanted to move on to the other door bar, and build door panels.

I'm thinkin that thing is gonna sit for another day. A few days/week aint gonna matter one way or the other.
I'll give it the Nick treatment.. @95BlueStallion

I can see how the magazines will tag a future feature article.......

Introducing the Gila Monster,...a love/hate relationship spanning the last TEN years.....

 

[Davedacarpainter]

Bright side, the hood does look cool.
You can make that center body line too.
Don't beat yourself up, though I would kick my own ass as well for having done that. Fact is that's why I can tell you it's definitely a bad thing.
You can cover over it, but someday, sure as crap, it'll come back and bite you in your backside. Make take a year, but I doubt it would last that long in the 'bama heat.
But, yeah, walk away from it for a few days. It's better to be a little relaxed when stripping it so there aren't any boo boos made into the bodywork.
So it was a mistake Mike, don't beat yourself up too much. Even a genius makes a mistake once in awhile!

 

[Davedacarpainter]

Hey, this might make you feel better about your hood.
Just found out the list price for that Viper hood I'm going to have to paint. $9100!!!!
I about pooped a brick on the bit of info.
So you have a long way you can still go on your hood.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

Hey, this might make you feel better about your hood.
Just found out the list price for that Viper hood I'm going to have to paint. $9100!!!!
I about pooped a brick on the bit of info.
So you have a long way you can still go on your hood.

Along the lines of shtting bricks,....I was watching Futurama when it was brand new. Typical with all the humor in that show,..there is so much going on, you have to pay close attention. This scene was one of the first where I laughed so hard my wife thought I'd lost it. ( She didn't know why I thought it was sooo funny.)

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

In light of yesterday's JF that was the primer fiasco, I decided that that hood could sit awhile while I got my mind right about it.

I decided to "go with what I know" and do some Chop, cut, rebuilding of my own.

The plan was to fabricate the door bar for the drivers' side door. Before that could happen I needed to get my Fedora, my heavily worn, brown leather coat, and my bull whip out because I had an archaeological dig to go to.

These are the receiver lugs that are set in my driveway to allow me to bolt my tubing bender down. Since the instances that I use that bender are so infrequent, those four holes will fill up with dirt a,metal grindings/dust and literally dissappear. If you were my neighbor, and just happened to look out your kitchen window at the right moment today, you would've been able to watch me staring at the ground, looking for them. I'm sure you would've been convinced that I was just as crazy as my real neighbor does.

But, after a few minutes, I found them, and commenced to dig them out.

So I could park this thing there.

One of my favorite tools. And next to the Wagner airless paint system I also own,...probably used just about as often. ( Actually, I use the bender more,....I freakin hate to painting anything involved with the house)

The only thing I had to get started with was one 60" long straight piece of 1.250 DOM tubing that I had been keeping for just this purpose. The door bar consists of 7 bends, and all of them are really close. Invariably you have to make a bend, and cut and section the entire thing together. In other words, you can't make several bends continuous on the bar.

The first two bends down, and tacked

I can TIG, but I'm just..........."competent". Since I'm grinding down every weld smooth, I really wasn't gonna go through the ordeal and just use the MIG,...but I figured what the hell, I'm never gonna get any better at it if I keep passing on the opportunity to use the damn thing.

Not the prettiest TIG weld you'll ever see, but in retrospect, waaay easier to grind smooth that the MIG. In hindsight, I'm glad I hooked the thing up after all.

Each one of the bends are all exactly the same. You stick the bar in the bender, lock it in place, engage the first tooth of the spreader,........and pull.

This bender will make a 90 degree bend. Everytime you pull one full sweep, you back it off, and engage the next tooth. Once you run all the teeth out, you move the entire die set back and reset a pin that moves the die forward, and then start all over again. In the case of these door bars,... I only had to run the first course of teeth,.......makes about a 22.5 degree bend .

Then you take the bar out,...and cut it.

I'm sure that to a chassis shop, using a large tubing cutter to cut this stuff is nothing new. Hell, they may be using something even slicker for that matter. But this takes about 30 seconds to make a absolutely perfect cut through .085 wall mild steel tubing. Gone are the days of using a HF chop saw that throws metal sparks, and grinding junk all over the place. Besides,...if you ever had one of the cheap HF chop saws,.....chances are you have to beat on the handle to get it to start,....or it's in some landfill.

The tubing cutter never fails.

So the day progresses along that way,...make a bend, cut it. Tack it with the MIG, Weld it with the TIG. Grind it down,...Yell at the dog to shut the hell up, move on to the next bend.
Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

It gets to a point of almost being done, but you gotta make the mount legs that will hold the stupid thing on the door.

Out comes more HF junk.

HF Tubing notcher,....clamped into my HF drill vise, sitting on my HF drill press.

Once cut, notched, grinded to fit, and welded, you finally have the makings for a Driver side door bar for your 1978 Ford Gila Monster Fairmont.

The $64,000 dollar question then, is.... Do they match each other?

Close enough.....I'm so sick of having to make two of everything on this car I could puke. Everywhere you look there are two "fraternal twins" on the car,.....Not quite identical, but from the same mommy, and the same baby daddy.

It's just gonna have to do, pig.


So are we done then?

You aren't even close to done.

You still have to make a mount on the door. There is still the mounting flange, and cover trim that has to be cut, bent, welded, drilled, and tapped to hold the mesh grille that matches the dash. There is still an "arm rest pad" that has to be integrated into that door bar. Then hours of smoothing, filling, sanding, priming, and painting. before it can actually be put in place.

But at least it's farther along than it was this morning,........When it was just a straight, 60" long piece of .085 wall 1.250" diameter DOM tubing.

 

[Noobz347]

You bent that orange cord like it was nothing.

 

[Davedacarpainter]

In light of yesterday's JF that was the primer fiasco, I decided that that hood could sit awhile while I got my mind right about it.

I decided to "go with what I know" and do some Chop, cut, rebuilding of my own.

The plan was to fabricate the door bar for the drivers' side door. Before that could happen I needed to get my Fedora, my heavily worn, brown leather coat, and my bull whip out because I had an archaeological dig to go to.

These are the receiver lugs that are set in my driveway to allow me to bolt my tubing bender down. Since the instances that I use that bender are so infrequent, those four holes will fill up with dirt a,metal grindings/dust and literally dissappear. If you were my neighbor, and just happened to look out your kitchen window at the right moment today, you would've been able to watch me staring at the ground, looking for them. I'm sure you would've been convinced that I was just as crazy as my real neighbor does.

But, after a few minutes, I found them, and commenced to dig them out.

So I could park this thing there.

One of my favorite tools. And next to the Wagner airless paint system I also own,...probably used just about as often. ( Actually, I use the bender more,....I freakin hate to painting anything involved with the house)

The only thing I had to get started with was one 60" long straight piece of 1.250 DOM tubing that I had been keeping for just this purpose. The door bar consists of 7 bends, and all of them are really close. Invariably you have to make a bend, and cut and section the entire thing together. In other words, you can't make several bends continuous on the bar.

The first two bends down, and tacked

I can TIG, but I'm just..........."competent". Since I'm grinding down every weld smooth, I really wasn't gonna go through the ordeal and just use the MIG,...but I figured what the hell, I'm never gonna get any better at it if I keep passing on the opportunity to use the damn thing.

Not the prettiest TIG weld you'll ever see, but in retrospect, waaay easier to grind smooth that the MIG. In hindsight, I'm glad I hooked the thing up after all.

Each one of the bends are all exactly the same. You stick the bar in the bender, lock it in place, engage the first tooth of the spreader,........and pull.

This bender will make a 90 degree bend. Everytime you pull one full sweep, you back it off, and engage the next tooth. Once you run all the teeth out, you move the entire die set back and reset a pin that moves the die forward, and then start all over again. In the case of these door bars,... I only had to run the first course of teeth,.......makes about a 22.5 degree bend .

Then you take the bar out,...and cut it.

I'm sure that to a chassis shop, using a large tubing cutter to cut this stuff is nothing new. Hell, they may be using something even slicker for that matter. But this takes about 30 seconds to make a absolutely perfect cut through .085 wall mild steel tubing. Gone are the days of using a HF chop saw that throws metal sparks, and grinding junk all over the place. Besides,...if you ever had one of the cheap HF chop saws,.....chances are you have to beat on the handle to get it to start,....or it's in some landfill.

The tubing cutter never fails.

So the day progresses along that way,...make a bend, cut it. Tack it with the MIG, Weld it with the TIG. Grind it down,...Yell at the dog to shut the hell up, move on to the next bend.
Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

It gets to a point of almost being done, but you gotta make the mount legs that will hold the stupid thing on the door.

Out comes more HF junk.

HF Tubing notcher,....clamped into my HF drill vise, sitting on my HF drill press.

Once cut, notched, grinded to fit, and welded, you finally have the makings for a Driver side door bar for your 1978 Ford Gila Monster Fairmont.

The $64,000 dollar question then, is.... Do they match each other?

Close enough.....I'm so sick of having to make two of everything on this car I could puke. Everywhere you look there are two "fraternal twins" on the car,.....Not quite identical, but from the same mommy, and the same baby daddy.

It's just gonna have to do, pig.


So are we done then?

You aren't even close to done.

You still have to make a mount on the door. There is still the mounting flange, and cover trim that has to be cut, bent, welded, drilled, and tapped to hold the mesh grille that matches the dash. There is still an "arm rest pad" that has to be integrated into that door bar. Then hours of smoothing, filling, sanding, priming, and painting. before it can actually be put in place.

But at least it's farther along than it was this morning,........When it was just a straight, 60" long piece of .085 wall 1.250" diameter DOM tubing.

That is so cool Mike, I'm quite envious of your shop, tools and skills to use them! Damn!
Pretty decent choice in cartoons as well. I think Bender channels me at times.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

That is so cool Mike, I'm quite envious of your shop, tools and skills to use them! Damn!
Pretty decent choice in cartoons as well. I think Bender channels me at times.

You needn't be envious of my "shop" Dave. I'm very careful to never incude an instance where I make a mistake, and allow the camera to see too much of "the shop".......Otherwise I might get a call from TLC to discuss the possibility of being on the new "Garage Hoarders" series.

 

[Davedacarpainter]

You needn't be envious of my "shop" Dave. I'm very careful to never incude an instance where I make a mistake, and allow the camera to see too much of "the shop".......Otherwise I might get a call from TLC to discuss the possibility of being on the new "Garage Hoarders" series.

Lol

 

[Phillip123]

You needn't be envious of my "shop" Dave. I'm very careful to never incude an instance where I make a mistake, and allow the camera to see too much of "the shop".......Otherwise I might get a call from TLC to discuss the possibility of being on the new "Garage Hoarders" series.

LOL

 

[Davedacarpainter]

Here's a neat little item.
I'm going to be spraying a little primer on doby this weekend and needed a small inline moisture remover.
These are the latest thing. They use desiccant beads like my big filter on my booth.
When the beads are saturated, they turn pink.

 

[Davedacarpainter]

Here's a neat little item.
I'm going to be spraying a little primer on doby this weekend and needed a small inline moisture remover.
These are the latest thing. They use desiccant beads like my big filter on my booth.
When the beads are saturated, they turn pink.

Hey @Noobz347 , would you move that to my thread please? Sorry about that.

 

[RangerJoe]

Here's a neat little item.
I'm going to be spraying a little primer on doby this weekend and needed a small inline moisture remover.
These are the latest thing. They use desiccant beads like my big filter on my booth.
When the beads are saturated, they turn pink.

Where can you pick those up at?

Joe