Progress Thread BluePrint 347 long block engine swap

[FastDriver]

Is that the turbo 363 '93 listed in your profile? What size throttle body?

No, that one's in the Reef Blue car, "Grover", in the background. It has a Super Victor 363. Street manners are worse, but easy to work on and very clean looking.

The dark blue car, Father Time, is a 331, but both are pretty close to each other in build, aside from the intakes. Both have
- Dart Iron Eagle 8.2" decks
- AFR205 heads
- 220-230 duration HR street cams
- 76-80mm turbos
- Accufab 90mm TBs
- similar fuel systems with weldon pumps and 120 lbs fuel injectors
- T56s
- Big Stuff 3 computers

One key difference is static compression. When designing the Father Time build, I'd come across the idea that lower compression and higher boost allowed for more power before detonation, and it made sense to me. I've run as high as 18 psi with it on street gas. It made 761 rwhp at 15 psi. Thats wasn't too shabby back in 2008. I wanted it to make 1k rwhp, but the only time I really tried to push it, there was so much back pressure that it couldn't keep the wastegate closed. It made 881 rwhp with Torco on pump gas at, I think 20-21 psi. I think it could have made it to 1k, but we'll never know as I recently swapped to Forced Induction's 1500 hp advertised rating GT42-80. Goal is 1.1k on race gas to the tire now. Not sure the fuel system is up to task, but we'll see.

Anyways, if the box upper will fit in the engine bay, it's the better choice for most builds. I'm a little rusty on all of the details, but I seem to remember the long runner R struggling to compete with other long runners down low, and at mid range and up, it's dominated by the Box.

I pulled some stuff out of Richard Holdener's book when I was in Afghanistan researching what to do next and the article convinced me to upgrade from my 75mm TB to the current 90. In a combo not too different from the basics in mine, the Box-R with a 90mm TB picked up almost 40 rwhp over the long runner R. The 90mm TB picked up 14 rwhp IIRC. I know different combos will be different, but it's hard to argue with differences that big.

Thread 'Finally! A valid TFS-R and TFS Box R intake dyno comparison on a street stroker.'

Oct 19, 2011

I’ve finally found a valid comparison and it turns out that the common belief is is wrong. In fact, the TFS Box R is the better set up for a street-oriented 302-based stroker combo. I’ve really wondered about this for a long time, and have always thought about swapping my box upper for a standard TFS-R upper.

Hopefully, this will help someone out there that tries to do the research prior building their combos.

From “Dyno-proven Small-block Ford Performance”:

Before getting to this test, I have to admit not being a big fan of these so-called box upper intakes. Testing in...

• FastDriver
• Replies: 58
• Forum: Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech

• 

 

[Sparky714]

Ok, you guys talked me into it. TFS Box R on the way.

 

[rednotch]

Not sure what your running for fuel system or rails but the box upper can be kind of a tricky for some so just be prepared, there's also guy selling ing different sized mid plates / spacers for them that could possibly be a fix for an issue with the valve cover/ hood fitments. The box uppers kind of a pita in some aspects but definitely better performance if the cam can take advantage of it.

 

[Sparky714]

Not sure what your running for fuel system or rails but the box upper can be kind of a tricky for some so just be prepared, there's also guy selling ing different sized mid plates / spacers for them that could possibly be a fix for an issue with the valve cover/ hood fitments. The box uppers kind of a pita in some aspects but definitely better performance if the cam can take advantage of it.

Yeah, I figured I'll still need some other parts. Going to let the intake get here then mock everything up and go from there. Who's this guy selling the midplates? More info please.

 

[rednotch]

Trick Flow Box-R Flange Plate

The Trick Flow Box-R intake comes with a one inch flange plate that is likely to cause hood clearance issues, especially on 9.5" deck blocks. A common solution is to mill the one inch flange plate, but you can only gain about 0.5 inches of clearance. You can then mill the upper intake and lower...

docs.google.com

Goes by blue351 on corral, not sure if he is still doing them though..

https://www.corral.net/threads/thinner-tfs-box-r-adapter-flange-spacer-plate.2477126/

 

[Sparky714]

Trick Flow Box-R Flange Plate

The Trick Flow Box-R intake comes with a one inch flange plate that is likely to cause hood clearance issues, especially on 9.5" deck blocks. A common solution is to mill the one inch flange plate, but you can only gain about 0.5 inches of clearance. You can then mill the upper intake and lower...

docs.google.com

Hopefully I don't need his help. I have a 4" cowel hood. Didn't really need it, but the previous owner put it on. Might come in handy now. I shouldn't have to fight hood clearance issues.

 

[FastDriver]

Yes. I have solid drop mounts on a UPR crossmember, and it fit under the 2.5" Kaenen cowl. Never heard of anyone else doing that with a 2.5". And, I had the stock spacer. Any 4" should fit it, no problem.

With the current hood, I had to have the thinner spacer. Now, I can't get the rear-most plug wire off without pulling the intake. So, I don't recommend the shorter spacer unless you need it.

Plus, the longer runner is better, unless you need to shift the RPM band up a bit.

 

[Sparky714]

Plus, the longer runner is better, unless you need to shift the RPM band up a bit.

That was actually a concern I had with this intake. I didn't want to lose a bunch of low end with the short runners. If I would have bolted it to the old 306, I'm sure I would have. But with more cubic inches and better flowing heads (still not the ideal cam), I'm pretty confident low end power will be as good or better than I had. Hell, the old setup was unusable until I went to a drag radial on the street.

 

[Sparky714]

Got a delivery today. Everything looks good. The only thing I'm not super happy about is the color of the upper. I was thinking it would be more silver than gray. It's not something I couldn't live with, but since I have to powdercoat the valve covers anyway, what would need to be done to change the color of the upper? I'm not sure if it's paint or powdwecoat now, but I've never had anything powdercoated. So what kind of prep would it take to change the color? I wanted black, but silver was hard to find, and black was really hard to find.

 

[FastDriver]

I dunno, but I had an intake powder coated by a local guy who did it for like $100. So, can't be that involved.

 

[AeroCoupe]

Most of the powder coat shops have a bead blaster so call ahead and see if they do. They may charge a little more to clean it up but it will save you countless hours.

 

[FastDriver]

Yep... I'm pretty sure mine was sand/bead blasted to prep it.

 

[Sparky714]

I dunno, but I had an intake powder coated by a local guy who did it for like $100. So, can't be that involved.

Is that just a mat black or a crinkle paint or...? That's the look I was thinking of and then see if I could get the lettering done in red to match my paint color.

 

[FastDriver]

I honestly don't know. I told him that I wanted it to have a texture to it and not be smooth. We didn't get into it any further. I didn't think a powder coat was considered paint, though.

 

[Sparky714]

I didn't think a powder coat was considered paint, though.

It's not. I'm just old and don't think about what I type sometimes.....

 

[FastDriver]

All good brother. I went back and found my text convo with him and he did indeed charge $100 for all 3 pieces. I had gotten it ported by Matt Moss, who added ceramic paint. I didn't know if that would be a problem but he said it would blast right off like spray paint, and it did.

 

[Sparky714]

All good brother. I went back and found my text convo with him and he did indeed charge $100 for all 3 pieces. I had gotten it ported by Matt Moss, who added ceramic paint. I didn't know if that would be a problem but he said it would blast right off like spray paint, and it did.

Well the price has gone up, at least around here. I talked to three different places today. And there's only one that I would think about using. He gave me an estimate of $200 for the valve covers and $200-$250 for the intake. I'm thinking I'll just have the covers done and do the intake some other time.

 

[FastDriver]

If it's worth doin', you might actually save a bit sending to me and lettin' my guy do it. Not sure what shipping would be, but I had it done in Dec'24.

He's an SF dude that serves at Fort Bragg with me, and does this from home, which is probably why he charges next to nothin. Wants to maybe open a business doin it, when he retires. If ya wanna go that direction, send me a PM.

 

[AeroCoupe]

I currently have one person in front of me on the chat line so we will see if they will provide the dimension.

Update, chat crashed so I just sent them an email. Will post up what they reply with.

As promised (literally just got the email response from them):

RE: M-6010-BOSS302 Block Cylinder Wall Length​

To: me · Thu, Jan 22 at 10:40 PM​

Finally got my hands on a block.
4 11/16 bore length
There is some concern out there about bore length when stroking the 302.
Here is a picture of a piston out of the 347sealed circle track engine that was used for 4 seasons.

3.400 stroke. 5.400 rod
Circle track racing is very hard on engines.

 

[Sparky714]

Making progress. New engine is setting in the car. Back up on blocks so transmission, exhaust and fuel system can all be finished underneath. Found a guy to do my powder coat so should have valve covers and intake back in a week or so. I think I have all the parts I need. It's 50 degrees here in North Dakota today, so I want to have this thing back together if we get an unusually early spring. Hopefully that groundhog was wrong.