Progress Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone Spoiler..Somebody point me to a wall......I need to bang my head against it.

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CarMichael Angelo

I don't like your attitude, let me fix that.
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Found two leaks that won't let the turbo make anymore than 5 psi...the bled valve that is going to vacuum modulator is leaking so bad it won't restrict any regulated air by itself when tested, and my fast idle valve probably didn't like positive pressure cause pressure just blows out the inlet end.

So,..two 1/4" holes in the iron lung just allowing as much air as will pass to go where it wants to go....and not into my engine.
I've gotta find a check valve that'll tolerate +15 psi for the vacuum modulator...I don't know if the standard dorman AC junk will live with that much pressure on it.
 

xecute

Active Member
attaboy Mike. Kid gloves are off.

351c intake and the spacers from PME, Wieand or flatlanderracing.com, one or two Hair dryers on a later post 1977 351m or 400 with the cam retard taken out annihilates any other engine. 460 included.

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Let all know that the finally crack free Cleveland foundary blocks were the 2nd and 3rd Gen truck engines, and just like the little 200 or 250, you can quadruple the power with just a turbo, a little intake work, and in that way, they are the engines in my opinion with the most latent potential. Even verses a 460.

You know, good advice is corrosive etch primer to newbies who cannot be realistic.

I've done my 4 Square 8ible 8ash at the port EFi thing.

Aussies and Kiwis were allowed to make hard core V8's in the years Dearborn was real worried about another gas crunch during the Desert Storm and Shock and Awe era.

We had your US V8 engines free of EPA/CARB/FMV and insurance induced pounds per hp limits;

a 1992 5.0 Cobra engine really was 276 hp, not 235.

Our Holdens and Fords had real kick ass 390 hp engines even in 2003. So my advice is on how stock parts are able to be performance parts without spending 4000 buxs to make 400 hp.

Your turbo and spool advice, bang on, CMA, and you saved a life with that sppol stuff. You pick and choose where to waste your air.

I'm not a stock car/ keep it showroom kind of guy, as Mustangs are the worlds most modified classic car ...bar none! As I (not you!) become a Convervative, Worried, Self absorbed old fart worried about the afterlife, I hope to God my attitudes don't pore out like a Puritanical Oliver Cromwell ready to sieze power and play wack-a-mole with the intentions of 25 years olds with a Aero 88 LX and some Big Dreams for Little People.

The least cost engine mods to get 400 hp, the gearbox, the axle, and untill you've crashed your CIG locker racer on the road, no one gets it. I remember my first teacher from the Ford dealership in Dunedin, he who told me in 1985

"Oh you wanna Limited Slip Diff do ya bouy. Get used to coping with the understeer on the first gravel road corner.They lock up like an Oval track car without stagger".

Then one day in 17 years later in 2002, the long wheel base crew cab Toyota with limited slip diff, locked up in the first gravel road corner...it understeered, and I went into the bank.

Stories like this are wasted on the young, butcha still gotta put your oar in. Don't give up. If you overstep it, the Mod Squad can font up with riot gear and long trunchens. Its only because you care, Mike.

If you don't care, you won't say anything. I had my posts locked in 2013 when Ford Australia was being picked on by the Federal Gov't. It took a while to see how my comments might have been deamed sarcastic, but , and I wanted to be done with all this measuring of truth. An Eye for an Eye, and a tooth for a tooth, and anyway I told the truth.

And that's how it is with newbies. They'll end up loving you because you got their back. We all do.

Next time, we'll do a photo drop on a newbie.

IMHO don't do that...do this....

Sometimes it is better to ignore them then to waste the letters it takes to build a sentence that has sensible words.
One picture saves a thousand words. Seven pictures, 7000.

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xecute

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Yup. Modulator valve. Humf...

If you reverse the following system the way Cosmo Kramer does it, you'll most likely control the shifting better


VBP-VAc For trans's with vacuum
modulator and superchargers or Turbo. All you do is put a T and a one way check valve to bleed off boost, the rest of the time it will work on vacuum like normal.

Dang Yankee's...

IIRC, This is what the 1980 Fairmont Turbo 2.3's used with the C3 Bordeaux, a non return valve.

WINDSOR_c4_TURBO_009.jpg


Vacuum/Boost Bypass Kit: All trans with vacuum . Prevents boost pressure from causing runaway line pressure.
 
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CarMichael Angelo

I don't like your attitude, let me fix that.
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Yup. Modulator valve. Humf...

If you reverse the following system the way Cosmo Kramer does it, you'll most likely control the shifting better


VBP-VAc For trans's with vacuum
modulator and superchargers or Turbo. All you do is put a T and a one way check valve to bleed off boost, the rest of the time it will work on vacuum like normal.

Dang Yankee's...

IIRC, This is what the 1980 Fairmont Turbo 2.3's used with the C3 Bordeaux, a non return valve.

WINDSOR_c4_TURBO_009.jpg


Vacuum/Boost Bypass Kit: All trans with vacuum . Prevents boost pressure from causing runaway line pressure.
I have that thing presently...it's a bleed valve alright, .....like it wont let the iron lung build any pressure at all. put 20 psi in, 20 psi goes right back out that hole. I modified it by tapping the thing so I can restrict the upward movement of the check ball, but in order for very little boost to get past it, I have to close the set screw down too tightly and it'll pass the boost through to the modulator. Open the set screw to minimize that, and let boost blow by, and the iron lung don't hold regulated pressure.

I put a standard one way check valve in line like you'd use in an AC system. Once installed, the iron lung holds 20 psi if I set that pressure at the test regulator.
I don't understand why I wouldn't use this thing..... once the lung converts to vacuum, the check valve pulls open just like normal, and the modulator would see vacuum again. The check ball thing I was using would let boost vent to atmosphere, and the rest of the line to the transmission after that would have to be equivalent to neutral...no vacuum, no boost.. What would be the diff here by using the check valve?
The only question I have is how the transmission will act on a WOT pull under boost shifting through all three gears...Before, with the check ball thing in place, there'd have to be no vacuum in the equation, and it worked..id have to imagine things will be the same.
 

xecute

Active Member
Grab a used Bendix or Maiatir Wabco single check valve off GKF. We'll have to wait till he's sleeping and , um, sorta like....pinch it off his trucks trailer tank.

Normally a hundred ping or so unstollen and store bought. Braking vessels are rated to 25 psi.

See link

"https://www.google.com/search?q=wabco+truck+trailer+single+check+valve&client=ms-android-samsung&hl=en-NZ&biw=360&bih=615&rlz=1Y1XIUG_enNZ840NZ839&prmd=isnv&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiSyu-ItqXjAhUFb30KHY5iAd8Q_AUIBA#imgrc=EbRh5F05HkIyKM:&spf=1562592341193
 
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CarMichael Angelo

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Ok. Called transgo he said he didn't care what I use as long as the vacuum modulator never sees positive pressure.
The vacuum modulator regulates line pressure,.....it has nothing to do with the 1-2, or 2-3 shift per se', but keeps the necessary pressure in place to keep the clutches or bands applied when they need applying...so.....as long as that stupid little 5 dollar check valve don't rupture........I'm golden. If it does, I'm phcked.

As part of the plan, I've turned off the EBC for the next test. I'm thinking I'm gonna see full gate pressure this time.
( let me check my Amazon purchase history, and make sure what the actual rated spring pressure is....hang on a minute...)
Yep 7 lbs,.....the datalog should show me that....
I'm driving it.
 

CarMichael Angelo

I don't like your attitude, let me fix that.
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Well nothing good came of it. The freakin hood scoop came unglued from its PBA bonded studs on one corner and started flopping in the wind ( piece a junk)
The dL only shows 5.9 psi one time...something is still leaking,...or something is going away. Time to pull the plugs.
 
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droopie85gt

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I must have slept and missed what's different in the induction side now that it's back together vs. last year when it made boost.
 

CarMichael Angelo

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I must have slept and missed what's different in the induction side now that it's back together vs. last year when it made boost.
It was unknown. After converting back to turbo, I had to find a way to keep the glass top on cause it kept blowing off. Once that problem was licked, then it became a matter of keeping blow by, and the oil it was spewing everywhere contained. But as to how much boost it made on the gate, I never logged it. It was just way better than the ITB's were w/o a turbo.

Maybe somethings wrong, maybe not. Maybe I'm just used to it. Steve says ( and I kinda agree with him) that he thinks there's only a 5 lb spring in the gate because the boost ceiling stops dead at 5 psi. I checked my purchase history,the part I bought was supposed to have a 7 pound spring in it..at this point, I'm ready to pull the gate off and pressure check it to see.
 

CarMichael Angelo

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No.....no......it's all conjecture...

I pulled the gate and tested it. I used the gauges off of my old drag slick tire pressure gauges to test this. They measure in half pound increments, and only go to 15 psi...if there ever was a more accurate gauge to do this with I don't know.

The gate cracks at 7 psi, and is fully open at 10.5.

I pulled the plugs..Autolite 64's....everyone of them text book examples of a healthy engine running on the slightly rich side with chocolate brown insulators, no evidence of any oil or fuel fouling or nothin.

Something is restricting the engine from making boost since last year...and certainly from the original single throttle body config when the B/W turbo was in place, when 50% boost duty made this post come along....
I have 11 pounds of boooost,...I have 11 pounds of boost, and I don't got no Raa-atle...

Well there's a vid...but I can't get it to upload. 11 minutes of me stickin in my face into the picture while I get the camera set, dicking with the computer, and driving the car, and about 15 seconds of Wheeeeee. It doesn't matter though,....just as soon as I mat the gas, all you hear is the microphone being overwhelmed.

I did data log the 11 minute ride to work,...( that's how I know it makes 11 psi) I haven't looked st it other than that for inj duty cycle, afr or any of that other junk. But I can finally say that it runs so damn good.
So,....what's left to blame? Either the Chinee turbo is the limitation, ( something is wrong?) the fact that there is now an additional muffler that may be choking the exhaust flow, causing excessive back pressure, or boost is getting by the ITBs....

I knew there was a reason I never threw away the Old intake, and sold off my old 70mm tb...they may make a reappearance.
 

CarMichael Angelo

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Because that is where the ECU is seeing pressure along with the manifold.
Yes but the boost reference to the WG is not part of the ecu's decision making when the controller is off. It is purely mechanical. If the freakin turbo won't supply enough pressure to lift the spring in the gate when the controller is off, something is..........awry.
 

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