23bucks...and You can probably guess that when somebody rattles my cage, and I'm standing right in front of them,..they got more than they wanted back.
Still a bargain.
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Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.
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Still a bargain.
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Well....I don't usually use this phrase, as I feel its best left for the dude,and dudettes of the world.....but..
That was freakin AWESOME!!!!
But, as with everything I do,...(twice) lets talk about trip #1.
When I configured the spare output to come on, I set two conditions in the ECU to act as fail safes to make sure that the water meth system wouldn't trigger prematurely.
#1. The MAP had to be above 147 kpa, ( which is equivalent to 7 psi ).
and
#2. The TPS sensor had to be at least 80% open. (I had to have my foot in it.)
I went out the first time, eased into the throttle, heard the engine come into boost, and immediately heard it rattle. I turned around, did the same thing, only this time I watched the activation led to see if the system was coming on...it rattled again, and the light didn't come on.
Sht aint working.
I get it back home, open up the tune file, check the parameters of the output, and.........
I had the condition set to boost,......not map. In other words,..the engine would have had to see 147psi of boost before it would ever tell the water/meth to flow...
I fixed that,..changed that setting to MAP,..and went back out.
It's too bad that only the few that have a MS system here can watch this...The IAT that was hovering at 80 degrees drops while in boost, eventually leveling out in the low 70's.
Yeahyah!
The coolant temp on the engine falls as you hold your foot on the floor. It started at 193, and was down to 173 by the time I was done with the test. Yeahyah!
Inj duty cycle is now in the low 70% range as a byproduct of the leaned out fuel map.Yeahyah!
The pull is strong and clean, w/o any hiccups.Double Yeahyah!
The only thing that's weird to watch is the AFR.....It gets richer when the engine is in boost,..and the tune has been leaned.
They say that you'll have to lean out the tune to offset the fact that you are pouring water into your engine,..I guess that that's an understatement.
The last time I tested it, I was in 4th gear (by accident) and going up a long sloping hill, (so I'm mega lugging it) I roll into the throttle and the engine just pulls all the way up to 4500 RPM (again in 4th gear)....in other words,......I'm raging along.
This was a mistake though...the byproduct of a manually switchable 4th gear,...if you forget that you switched it on,..it stays on....and now its in 2nd gear....doing who knows what to the clutches in the transmission..I found out that I was in that gear when the car did a weird thing when shifting out of 2. It kinda "chugged" and I lifted briefly...putting the thing into 3rd gear goes straight into 4th gear,..and the kit instructions state to not put the car through a power pull in that gear.
But,..That what I just did.
The only bad thing here is that the oil breathers won't keep the oil in the engine on a series of long pulls like I did,..and it was everywhere when I got it back in the garage.....Looks like I'm back to dealing with that crap again too.
If these were different times, and I was still working for myself and making the money that I did then, I'd remove the engine and freshen the thing with new rings, and just give the whole thing a once over to be sure that its all good. Now thats its on the path to making good power, I'd hate to have something let go as a result of the steep and rocky learning curve that the Monster has had to go through...
And someday I may do just that still....but it's running so good...
Oh yeah,...almost forgot....I also have the slight nose down rake I was looking for now...
That was freakin AWESOME!!!!
But, as with everything I do,...(twice) lets talk about trip #1.
When I configured the spare output to come on, I set two conditions in the ECU to act as fail safes to make sure that the water meth system wouldn't trigger prematurely.
#1. The MAP had to be above 147 kpa, ( which is equivalent to 7 psi ).
and
#2. The TPS sensor had to be at least 80% open. (I had to have my foot in it.)
I went out the first time, eased into the throttle, heard the engine come into boost, and immediately heard it rattle. I turned around, did the same thing, only this time I watched the activation led to see if the system was coming on...it rattled again, and the light didn't come on.
Sht aint working.
I get it back home, open up the tune file, check the parameters of the output, and.........
I had the condition set to boost,......not map. In other words,..the engine would have had to see 147psi of boost before it would ever tell the water/meth to flow...
I fixed that,..changed that setting to MAP,..and went back out.
It's too bad that only the few that have a MS system here can watch this...The IAT that was hovering at 80 degrees drops while in boost, eventually leveling out in the low 70's.
Yeahyah!The coolant temp on the engine falls as you hold your foot on the floor. It started at 193, and was down to 173 by the time I was done with the test.
Yeahyah!Inj duty cycle is now in the low 70% range as a byproduct of the leaned out fuel map.
Yeahyah!The pull is strong and clean, w/o any hiccups.
Double Yeahyah! The only thing that's weird to watch is the AFR.....It gets richer when the engine is in boost,..and the tune has been leaned.
They say that you'll have to lean out the tune to offset the fact that you are pouring water into your engine,..I guess that that's an understatement.
The last time I tested it, I was in 4th gear (by accident) and going up a long sloping hill, (so I'm mega lugging it) I roll into the throttle and the engine just pulls all the way up to 4500 RPM (again in 4th gear)....in other words,......I'm raging along.
This was a mistake though...the byproduct of a manually switchable 4th gear,...if you forget that you switched it on,..it stays on....and now its in 2nd gear....doing who knows what to the clutches in the transmission..I found out that I was in that gear when the car did a weird thing when shifting out of 2. It kinda "chugged" and I lifted briefly...putting the thing into 3rd gear goes straight into 4th gear,..and the kit instructions state to not put the car through a power pull in that gear.
But,..That what I just did.
The only bad thing here is that the oil breathers won't keep the oil in the engine on a series of long pulls like I did,..and it was everywhere when I got it back in the garage.....Looks like I'm back to dealing with that crap again too.
If these were different times, and I was still working for myself and making the money that I did then, I'd remove the engine and freshen the thing with new rings, and just give the whole thing a once over to be sure that its all good. Now thats its on the path to making good power, I'd hate to have something let go as a result of the steep and rocky learning curve that the Monster has had to go through...
And someday I may do just that still....but it's running so good...
Oh yeah,...almost forgot....I also have the slight nose down rake I was looking for now...
Oh he's paid his dues alright..he has numerous bruises to show for it..
All of them because he lives in Iowa,..
mike I ah took the liberty of adjusting your fuel for you.. I cant believe how well the wmeth actually drops the intake temps.
FYI I tuned to your AFR table.
FYI I tuned to your AFR table.
Thats friggin cool Mike. If only you can figure something out with that PCV issue. Get that puppy hassle free so you can really just enjoy it.
And Iowa felt like Alabama today, coming in at a balmy 65 degrees. Too bad I dont get garage time tonight.
And Iowa felt like Alabama today, coming in at a balmy 65 degrees. Too bad I dont get garage time tonight.
I know! Seems I've been saying something about the potential for cooling w/o a big stupid aluminum box hanging up front..
It looks like once the water started spraying, the temps cooled even after the test pull..
Thanks as always for looking at it for me.
That's gonna be tougher I think..I'm thinking that I'm gonna fab a box that sits between the two breathers, that'll gravity drain oil that gets forced out of the valve covers back into the engine. I gotta create a mongo baffle system in that box that'll trap liquid oil but still let vapor escape to atmosphere.
I gotta plan.
No,...the oil is what's thickening....all of that water vapor, and sludge getting by the rings.
Well................just learned something new on an iPad. Holding any text button longer than a normal strike, gives you a different character choice. Can't say it makes any sense...i.e. holding down the ./? key puts a quotation mark there...( you'd think it'd be the question mark ) All of these devices go so far beyond what 95% of the users want out of them because they pack all of this junk in there and then charge stupid money for it.
They need to make an COPO Camaro version of one of these things...allow you to choose what you want/need and nothing that you don't. and then sell it like a factory ordered radio delete hotrod. No pwr anything, no AC, manual steering, nothin else.... Just a big honkin engine, 4 speed trans, and a 4.11 posi-trac loaded 12 bolt. I'd have a stripper iPad,..no keys with two functions, or 50 bagillion icons that you never use just a big, fast processor, connection capabilities for wifi, Bluetooth, and cellular, and the stinkin ability to load actual computer programs in it... I'd be Da Done Dah
Finished the water meth install last night. I did move the nozzle to the elbow in front of the throttle body, and that required that I make a thread reducer. ( nozzle is 1/8 npt, hole in the elbow is 1/4 npt) I made the thing out of another brass fitting that I had to cut, drill, tap and grind to make work. It took about an hour all toll. The good thing about doing that instead of just going to the parts store and buying a reducer premade is that this thing is now just thick enough to hold the nozzle, and allows the tip to protrude into the elbow instead of it 1/4" too high, which would've possibly diminished the spray pattern.
Now all I gotta do is test the thing to be sure that it works, and put the nozzle back in the elbow permanently.
The intercooler is still hanging under the fender.
The whole rest of the car is a jug phck. The dash is partly tore apart, the passenger seat is out of it, and there is the typical wiring mess that has to be cleaned up before I can even consider taking it out and testing it.
And.................. There's the whole " changing the tune thingy" I gotta do too.
I decided to let the MS activate the system. I've ran a wire to the last remaining spare output I have, and set it up in TS. I thought that I was gonna be able to set multiple conditions to control its activation, but could only set two.
I chose a MAP based condition ( > 145 kpa) which in my case means greater than 6.8 psi of boost, and TPS, (>85%). So, if it works like its sposed to, nothing will happen if both of those conditions aren't met. I set no hysteris buffers either..it activates only when the throttle is at least 85% open, and boost is greater than 6.8 pounds.
At least that's what I think I've done.
I still have to lean out the same portions of the fuel map, and add timing back to the spark map to take advantage of what I've done here. I'm currently about 11.8 AFR at 6.8 psi, and it gets progressively fatter as the boost numbers go north of that, eventually ending up at 11.3.
I think I'm gonna paint that whole section, and make a blanket .75 of a point bump to those numbers to start.
That should leave the high boost numbers seeing just north of 12:1 AFR.
And I resume listening for the rattle.
Timing,.......To melt, or not to melt.....ill start with +2 degrees. I think from what I've read, this is where power is gonna come back. Currently I'm a 16 degrees at 11 psi....
Can you say "a 500 horsepower 6 banger?" Especially considering that this engine made 99 whole whopping ponies when it was factory fresh in the '78 Maverick that I drug this engine out of?
Of course you can....it's easy.....It sounds just like...........
BooM!
But,...today is the Sunday, on the week after Thanksgiving.
The wife gets all "Christmassy" at these times...and this year want an 8-10 tall real tree. ( yeah,...I know,..10 feet tall). The new house has skylights right in the middle of it, and she figures she's gonna stick that thing right there..
I only think I'm gonna work on the car today.
And the first present shows up under the tree.
Well................just learned something new on an iPad. Holding any text button longer than a normal strike, gives you a different character choice. Can't say it makes any sense...i.e. holding down the ./? key puts a quotation mark there...( you'd think it'd be the question mark ) All of these devices go so far beyond what 95% of the users want out of them because they pack all of this junk in there and then charge stupid money for it.
They need to make an COPO Camaro version of one of these things...allow you to choose what you want/need and nothing that you don't. and then sell it like a factory ordered radio delete hotrod. No pwr anything, no AC, manual steering, nothin else.... Just a big honkin engine, 4 speed trans, and a 4.11 posi-trac loaded 12 bolt. I'd have a stripper iPad,..no keys with two functions, or 50 bagillion icons that you never use just a big, fast processor, connection capabilities for wifi, Bluetooth, and cellular, and the stinkin ability to load actual computer programs in it... I'd be Da Done Dah
Finished the water meth install last night. I did move the nozzle to the elbow in front of the throttle body, and that required that I make a thread reducer. ( nozzle is 1/8 npt, hole in the elbow is 1/4 npt) I made the thing out of another brass fitting that I had to cut, drill, tap and grind to make work. It took about an hour all toll. The good thing about doing that instead of just going to the parts store and buying a reducer premade is that this thing is now just thick enough to hold the nozzle, and allows the tip to protrude into the elbow instead of it 1/4" too high, which would've possibly diminished the spray pattern.
Now all I gotta do is test the thing to be sure that it works, and put the nozzle back in the elbow permanently.
The intercooler is still hanging under the fender.
The whole rest of the car is a jug phck. The dash is partly tore apart, the passenger seat is out of it, and there is the typical wiring mess that has to be cleaned up before I can even consider taking it out and testing it.
And.................. There's the whole " changing the tune thingy" I gotta do too.
I decided to let the MS activate the system. I've ran a wire to the last remaining spare output I have, and set it up in TS. I thought that I was gonna be able to set multiple conditions to control its activation, but could only set two.
I chose a MAP based condition ( > 145 kpa) which in my case means greater than 6.8 psi of boost, and TPS, (>85%). So, if it works like its sposed to, nothing will happen if both of those conditions aren't met. I set no hysteris buffers either..it activates only when the throttle is at least 85% open, and boost is greater than 6.8 pounds.
At least that's what I think I've done.
I still have to lean out the same portions of the fuel map, and add timing back to the spark map to take advantage of what I've done here. I'm currently about 11.8 AFR at 6.8 psi, and it gets progressively fatter as the boost numbers go north of that, eventually ending up at 11.3.
I think I'm gonna paint that whole section, and make a blanket .75 of a point bump to those numbers to start.
That should leave the high boost numbers seeing just north of 12:1 AFR.
And I resume listening for the rattle.
Timing,....
Can you say "a 500 horsepower 6 banger?" Especially considering that this engine made 99 whole whopping ponies when it was factory fresh in the '78 Maverick that I drug this engine out of?
Of course you can....it's easy.....It sounds just like...........
BooM!
But,...today is the Sunday, on the week after Thanksgiving.
The wife gets all "Christmassy" at these times...and this year want an 8-10 tall real tree. ( yeah,...I know,..10 feet tall). The new house has skylights right in the middle of it, and she figures she's gonna stick that thing right there..
I only think I'm gonna work on the car today.
And the first present shows up under the tree......wait a minute.....oh crap,..it's Pete, the Crotchedy Cairn.
I tuned your 've table.
Your AFR table said 12.4
The log showed 11.7 a bit too rich
Have[11.7]÷want[12.4]= .943
I multiplied the 've table in the 8psi and up area by .943 this removed 5.7% fuel
The AFR table means nothing if the 've table isn't tuned so that the actual AFR matches the table.
I.i.i... don't remember seeing a change in that either..only a few numbers in the idle/cruise looked like they had changed..
I'm not in front of the computer so I can't compare the two,..but I'll look closer to see what you did when I get home tonight.
Yeah your numbers are fairly tight so 5.7% may only be 2 or 3 points on the 've table.
stangboy
Founding Member
See that is the stuff that scares me when its time for me to maintain and make little tweaks to my tune when I get a turbo and PiMPxs. 
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