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I'm not even building it or comtemplating building it, but all of the pictures gives me a headache. I'm going out to work on my common as a pimple 302/351 swap and drink until I can unsee all of these manifolds. Wake me when you have a prototype or at least a sketch of what you're building.

Wait...didn't you sell your welder and other fabrication tools? How will you piece this snake together? Phil Swift sells Flex Seal in white OR black rolls now!
 
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If all that have been posted so far, this:

xeefi-jpg.596319.jpg


Polished to a mirror finish with all of the black and orange already in that engine bay.
I don't have the hood clearance,..and I ain't adding that stock intake and burying the injector rail beneath the top plenum....besides....that stock injection head has injector bosses that my head does not.....no worky.
 
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I don't have the hood clearance,..and I ain't adding that stock intake and burying the injector rail beneath the top plenum....besides....that stock injection head has injector bosses that my head does not.....no worky.
You could just put a new scoop on your hood real quick like:jester:.
 
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I don't have the hood clearance,..and I ain't adding that stock intake and burying the injector rail beneath the top plenum....besides....that stock injection head has injector bosses that my head does not.....no worky.

The Blues before and after....


The factory 1983 4.1 EFI rib cage intake runner was minted early to fit the Rosi redsigned 1985 XF Falcon, with its tinware canted hard over the very tall 250 engine. X-flow, Log head, all the 250 engines were a real pest to fit to the X bodies, and for the S shell Foxes, Ford USA didn't bother. The itty bitty 7.803" tall 200, not a problem.

EFi 4.1 hood clearance at the throttle body is 4.5" above the air cleaner, just like the carb engines.

It is, of course, a 100% copy of the 1973 3.0CSL injection plenumb

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Nice copy, Ford

A 1977-1982 Aussie Ford Cortina is a Fox based K member car with low hood line, and it fits the Fox as the front part is canted forward. Its basically a German 1976 Taunus TF with a Falcon 250 engine

DSC001448.jpg


The problem is the stock 79-93 Mustang, where a 4.1 EFi might be clode to hitting; where the Fox hoodline isnow pivoted factionally lower at the front, 1" taller at the firewall.

The EFi should just fit the box top Fox. J-u-s-t.


The injector boss reliefs were just added after October 1982.


Before, the stock 1.33" ports were like this

81_fox_i6_project_005.jpg


You can add them in, and relocate the injectors closer if you wanna.

Ford derated the 1982 and 1983 carb 2-bbl 9 hp when the injector bosses were added.

81_fox_i6_project_003.jpg


81_fox_i6_project_006.jpg


On the EFi intake, it was to ensure space was avaialbe without an air flow deficit

81_fox_i6_project_004.jpg


81_fox_i6_project_002.jpg


They added them because Bosch had a recommended injector placement, and the alloy head followd the Mercedes Benz head practice of having a 5 degree reverse angle on the port.

This has allways made the early X flow head something of a problem child to modify. Ford focused 100% with Honda and Bosch on getting the port angles good, and the injector postion came later



Its all about having a "want to".

The injector placement isn't a real issue.

The RamChargers long branch 413/426 Max Wedge intake runner was trial fitted on the Hyper Pac Slant Sixes with the 390 4-bbl

Doug Dutras Slant 6 intake is just like it

doug_dutra_slant_six_hyperpak007.jpg


You can do it Mike!
 
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Well....My win 8.1 computer had become so bloated, and slow that I just couldn't take it anymore....so I backed up what I thought I needed, and did a refresh on the drive. It took hours to do, but it's finally back to operational......And back to it's original speed...I got a win 10 tablet for Christmas, that was an intended replacement for this heavy assed thing, (which was a replacement for the android tablet that she got me first, which also wouldn't work) but a tablet is a joke. It's all app based,.....You simply cannot load any conventional software....which means that the tuning, and data-logging software wouldn't work....and other than using this thing for internet browsing,....Composing, and posting my Stangnet manifesto's, and tuning the car,.....it just sits around.
But when I use the thing, I want it to work, and now it does.

So,....Starting the new year off on the right foot,.....And at the same time, celebrating day 1 of my 32nd year of marriage.
This day one is a lot different than the original day one though.....;)

The plans continue to evolve.....I'm thinking I'm pushing in all of the chips on the table,..........I'm going "all in" on a a game of 5 card Naturally Aspirated stud.

I'm gonna rebuild both sides,....intake, and exhaust.

I've always wanted a individual throttle body system,....ever since I saw my first stacked Hilborn injection system on some 60's hemi drag car...
Every old 60's era I-6 with Weber side drafts,...Every time a see a new engine with individual throttle bodies,.....I want one.
And now, I'm gonna consider doing it.
If you'll recall,...I was gonna try a Weber set up on the red car, but ran into money problems, and slammed the lid shut on that idea.
But,..that was then, this is now.

I talked about this some pages back,..and I keep circling back to it......And I'm here to tell you when I keep coming back to something......it's made it past the "That'd be cool" stage..

Next we move onto the "What's it gonna take to do it?" stage.....

First.....I need to find out center to center spacing on a set of BMW e46 M3 individual throttle bodies...
Like these:
s-l1600.jpg

If these things are close enough to my port spacing to allow for a short transition spacer placed between my head, and these things,....you're looking at my new intake manifold. The only thing I'm adding are 6 little velocity stack hats for each individual TB,....and were calling this a decision made.

They're all over Ebay for between $300-400.00. Cheap enough to try it if they're close enough to make the whole thing work.
They come with their own cast in injector boss, but that'll force a new fuel rail, and worse than that,..with the transition adapter in between, it'll put the injector at least 2" further back from the port opening in the head.
The transition adapter will serve as the injector mounting location in this project, and that'll allow me to use my existing fuel rail, all while keeping the injector as close, if not closer than it actually is now on the existing intake.

The BMW throttle body bases are oval,.....my ports are round...the TB bolt pattern is diagonal,...mine is vertical....whatever bore spacing differential there is can hopefully be fixed w/ this transition adapter I'm talking about making.

Lastly,.....They're aluminum,...and fairly uncluttered as OEM throttle bodies go.....these things can be polished.:nice:

On the exhaust side,....I'm just gonna make a new header out of the mild steel 16ga J bends that'll be here mid week.
Two banks of three-into-one that'll feed into the existing 3" single exhaust that is in place currently...

Now,...before anybody gets all fired up to tell me that I'll be wasting my time, and that i'll never be happy with the sub 300 hp that I'll be left with if I do this....that may be the case....The turbo stuff will be sitting on a shelf if it is.
But it wasn't that way in the N/A red car.....How much power does a carb'd HCI 2v 4.6 make ya think? That car was more than fast enough to make me happy.

It'll be about the sound for me,..(there is a fairly big solid roller cam in this engine that that turbo is neutering) ...It'll be about the visual when I lift that hood,....trading away a 66 mm wheezer for six shiny tb's is a fair trade on both fronts.

As for what I'll be left with for power, I got no idea,....but Dean @xecute does...

I'll probably trade off 60+ pounds of front end weight right off the bat, No 10 lb I/C,...No 5 lb. 3" charge tube that runs the full width of the front end,...No .140" thick wall 30 pound exhaust manifold hanging on the side of the engine, w/that 20 lb. cast iron lunker wheezer mounted on top...replaced by a 10 pound thin wall smallish exhaust header instead.


If I like it enough,..the turbo goes on the block,...as does the intercooler, the waste gates, and probably the water meth...and the water re-circulation system, the proceeds of which will more than adequately fund this whole ordeal.
 
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Talk about Mic Drop! Is today APRIL 1? At least now space and weight are no longer a concern for the Ma Deuce. I will say, I am a big fan of the turbo 6. I am wondering if a) you are joking and b) you can really miss out on big 250 6 power. Can't you make a intake hat to use the individual tb AND turbo?
 
Here are some pics of my past customer's to spark your creativity. All manifold came from me and my dad's shop except the turbo manifold, althougb can't take credit for the fab work have talent in the area. Runners is 3.5° total taper, theory is based on the observation of running water in your faucet and how water wants to come back closer together at the bottom of the sink. Plenum size is 1.5-2x cubic inches of engine. Runner ends are radius going into manifold plenum.
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View of intake & updraft Carb.jpg
Top view of induction.jpg
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Talk about Mic Drop! Is today APRIL 1? At least now space and weight are no longer a concern for the Ma Deuce. I will say, I am a big fan of the turbo 6. I am wondering if a) you are joking and b) you can really miss out on big 250 6 power. Can't you make a intake hat to use the individual tb AND turbo?
I am not joking. I am serious as I'll ever be.
#1. Let Dean confirm that this will be a 250whp/300wtq combination N/A.
#2. Let the throttle bodies be close enough to be able to make them fit.

That turbo stuff will be history.

Power is intoxicating,..but it's destructive. I want reliability, and to remove the lure to add more power. I've opened Pandoras box when I added the water meth.....
I can now safely exceed the limits of something inside the engine...which will more than likely be a connecting rod.

There are guys here that prefer to keep their stock 5.0 power level, or slightly above that, that have stated that it was once a fun car that they could beat the snot out of w/o worrying about breaking something. I have a light car,...I have a steep gear,...and I'm talking about adding an induction system that was always credited w/ making more power over conventional single carb/open plenums designs on a N/A engine...If it makes 300 ft lbs of torque at the rear tires, it'll be fun and it'll be fast.

It won't boil the tires like it does now,.....but in reality,....where do I get to do that except about 10% of the time I'd drive it?
Boost only shows itself while accelerating....all other times, it's just added heat and weight.

I'll know if the plan will work tomorrow when I call one of those suppliers of the throttle bodies (if they'll accurately measure the C to C of the throttle bodies) I'll try to contact one of them via email, and see if I can get that done as well.

I'm so in "forward mode" on this, I'm already considering selling all of the turbo stuff off as soon as I get my confirmation on that spec so that I can start this ball rolling.

I won't be able to sell the existing intake and exhaust manifolds, which is the largest obstacle to reverting the system back to turbo other than money,.... As for the rest though,.......it's all new stuff for the most part, it's American,...and it should bring a fair price when and if I sell it.
 
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I totally understand. Back when we were racing, we ended up with an alcohol injected, solid flat tappet 455 that would run 10 flat. It required running the valves every 10 or so passes and changing the oil at least every 3rd time to the track, if not more if it was cool outside. I remember it being WAAAY more fun when it ran 11's on 93 pump gas. We ended up with a 1050 dominator on it, but in reality it ran almost as good with a trick quadrajet on it. I think the last season we ran it like that, we changed the oil twice and with a hydraulic flat tappet, never touched anything other than the delay box!

I totally feel that too as I bought a XE282 roller for the 351 but wonder if that will be too radical. But my 85 will never be a daily driver. Just a cruise in, occasional drag pass and maybe a autoX. I am thinking of going with something smaller and tamer. Since I have the Powerdyne, I can always throw that on, if I want to destroy my T5.

I'm hoping the spacing on those throttle bodies is close. I want to see that!
 
Awww dammnn Mike...... we get your car fully tuned and you go and do this......

Luckily I think I can use some of the datalogs to rebuild the tune file into an I
ITB setup..

Things to keep in mind, if you want to do the ITB tune we need a map reading from a common plenum somewhere behind the throttle bodies.. if you do not have a common plenum area we will need to tune with alpha-n..

I think you should still use the wmeth system.....
 
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Well brother (Dad), I am surprised, but not surprised. This will allow your creative side to flourish yet again, and those of us that "know" you, know that you enjoy the build as much (probably more, actually) than the finished product. This will look cool as hell, Mike.

While the engine is apart, are you going to change pistons or take any other steps to bump the compression any? Cant remember where you actually landed on the CR spectrum, though, but am thinking right around 10:1?

At any rate, Im excited to see you dig into this.
 
I’d throw it all on eBay .
Sell it Piece by piece.
Exscuse my ignorance Mike (I know,recurring theme with me.)
Does the Aussie head and the cam really bump the Sixxer up to the 300Hp mark Na?
Not hardly....not from the factory. Ford rated the injected Aussie 4.1 crossflow engine at 161 using the very conservative DIN rating system which is way stricter than our SAE system, and forces the standard of measuring power "As installed", having to drive the belts and accessories, and exhaust through the restrictive factory emission systems of the early 80's..

Firstly, I'd really like to have an idea of what the actual power potential of the engine is as a reference point. ( I'm thinkin' higher than 161.)

Next, I'm hoping the individual throttle body thing is worth a decent tap to that. The factory compression in these engines was pitifully low,( less than 9:1...) and mine could be as high as 10:7. The stock cam was modest at best,...probably less than much over .400" Stock these engines didn't like to rev, and the weanie cam was partially to blame for that.. I'm figuring that the roller and related head work is worth a decent uptick in power...Valves are stock sized stainless, and the ports have been opened up.

IF........IF....Any of that is worth anything at all,..the engine should be north of 200 at least.

It's like I said earlier when I threw a line to xecute, If anybody knows what my engine will make N/A it's him...when he sees the tag,..hopefully he'll chime in....( Then we'll all have to read, and re-read his reply until we figure out what he's trying to tell us);).

Everything's on C/L....and if everything sells, it'll bring right around $1000.00.....more than enough to change everything over to N/A.
 
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Awww dammnn Mike...... we get your car fully tuned and you go and do this......

Luckily I think I can use some of the datalogs to rebuild the tune file into an I
ITB setup..

Things to keep in mind, if you want to do the ITB tune we need a map reading from a common plenum somewhere behind the throttle bodies.. if you do not have a common plenum area we will need to tune with alpha-n..

I think you should still use the wmeth system.....
Oh sht! forgot about the Map sensor!!!!! and the IAT sensor for that matter.....There is gonna be a short runner transition between the individual TB's and the head...I could link all of those runners to form a common plenum of sorts. Then again,...why isn't the vacuum signal from a single TB enough to supply both sensors?

And.....I'll go back to 15.00 a can octane boost if I get any knock once the engine gets all of its timing back in....I'd have to run six nozzles if I keep the water meth.
 
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