Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.
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Well hell....back to “ Somethin’ ain’t right” mode.
The waste gate seal was compromised, and letting exhaust gasses get past it in the valve side, effectively reducing total potential boost. The V band clamp wasn’t tight. To be sure that my gate was “ as advertised”, I removed it, and bench tested it.
It Cracks open at 12, and is fully open at 15psi.
When I reinstalled it, I added some copper RTV to the v-band flanges to better seal that bitch up.
When it had cured enough, I took the car back out and wailed on it. This time I shifted out of 1st, at 6400 rpm.
This time the engine made 15.7 psi.
And if there was a clone monster with the old Monster engine running at its best, next to thnew Ninja-Monster in a head to head match up.....
The old Monster would hand this new version its ass.
Roll into first gear with the old Monster, and the tires lit, and they would continue to boil through all second gear.
Roll into this car in first, and.................................wait for it..........The one-two gear change allows a little bit of tire spin, but that’s about it....
I drive stock BMW’s rated at 340 hp that feel faster.
Again, Steve has the important stuff..the current tune, and the running DL from that session..From what I saw,...it goes stupidly fat ( like 9.5:1) at that boost level...maybe if two points of AFR were added back to lean it out, it may come alive...but at what the current seat-o-the-pant Dyno is telling me, I’m not even near 350 hp...and if all I got left is leaning this thing out to make a believer out of me...
* As an edit to the above..He removed “a ton of fuel”. Tells me to be careful and watch the AFR closely...
Should I tell him about the Meth fueled, 95 mm turbo car that I was testing at the track....the A302/363 belt drive fuel pump, 320 lb/hr injected engine that I ran without coolant, and without a hood..( so I could see if anything weird was happening)
The tuner told me to “be careful and lift if I heard anything bad”.
Not only was I NOT not careful,...I didn’t lift when I heard anything bad.....
And there was definitely something bad happening...I watched as a puff came out of the left side of the block, before I grabbed the chute.
and got towed back to find that I had went so lean the engine literally torched itself...cutting a groove in the deck of the block 1/4” deep...effectively ending my drag racing days for good.
So, should I tell him?
The waste gate seal was compromised, and letting exhaust gasses get past it in the valve side, effectively reducing total potential boost. The V band clamp wasn’t tight. To be sure that my gate was “ as advertised”, I removed it, and bench tested it.
It Cracks open at 12, and is fully open at 15psi.
When I reinstalled it, I added some copper RTV to the v-band flanges to better seal that bitch up.
When it had cured enough, I took the car back out and wailed on it. This time I shifted out of 1st, at 6400 rpm.
This time the engine made 15.7 psi.
And if there was a clone monster with the old Monster engine running at its best, next to thnew Ninja-Monster in a head to head match up.....
The old Monster would hand this new version its ass.
Roll into first gear with the old Monster, and the tires lit, and they would continue to boil through all second gear.
Roll into this car in first, and.................................wait for it..........The one-two gear change allows a little bit of tire spin, but that’s about it....
I drive stock BMW’s rated at 340 hp that feel faster.
Again, Steve has the important stuff..the current tune, and the running DL from that session..From what I saw,...it goes stupidly fat ( like 9.5:1) at that boost level...maybe if two points of AFR were added back to lean it out, it may come alive...but at what the current seat-o-the-pant Dyno is telling me, I’m not even near 350 hp...and if all I got left is leaning this thing out to make a believer out of me...
* As an edit to the above..He removed “a ton of fuel”. Tells me to be careful and watch the AFR closely...
Should I tell him about the Meth fueled, 95 mm turbo car that I was testing at the track....the A302/363 belt drive fuel pump, 320 lb/hr injected engine that I ran without coolant, and without a hood..( so I could see if anything weird was happening)
The tuner told me to “be careful and lift if I heard anything bad”.
Not only was I NOT not careful,...I didn’t lift when I heard anything bad.....
And there was definitely something bad happening...I watched as a puff came out of the left side of the block, before I grabbed the chute.
and got towed back to find that I had went so lean the engine literally torched itself...cutting a groove in the deck of the block 1/4” deep...effectively ending my drag racing days for good.
So, should I tell him?
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HotFox
15 Year Member
Ford power
Toyo power
It will be interesting to see what you find out as my money is still on the Toyo. DId you check the oil filter recently for shavings to see if the rear main is eating itself? Oil temperature spike will be a tail-tail indicator if you monitor it.
Toyo power
It will be interesting to see what you find out as my money is still on the Toyo. DId you check the oil filter recently for shavings to see if the rear main is eating itself? Oil temperature spike will be a tail-tail indicator if you monitor it.
You’re just itching to have my Trans-dapter cause me premature engine bearing failure aren’t ya?Ford power
Toyo power
It will be interesting to see what you find out as my money is still on the Toyo. DId you check the oil filter recently for shavings to see if the rear main is eating itself? Oil temperature spike will be a tail-tail indicator if you monitor it.
What if?
What if this thing works and i don’t need your friend, and his fancy smancy 5 axis cnc , with his double throw down, top secret CAD hole plotter aligney thingy?
What if my home made “ I don’t need dick to mate a transmission “ adapter method trumps all that ?
What if you just went out and drove the piss out of it and get it tuned. I bet going from 9.5:1 to something remotely sane like 11:7:1 will wake that beotch up. Make sure you video this
for our enjoyment!
Not pics.....VIDEO!!!!
HotFox
15 Year Member
I will call you lucky! I have been engine building long enough to know that if you can get away with that without failure your Damm LUCKY!
dr. Dan W.
Active Member
Well,......I made it.
That's why we keep reading.
There's a lot of pain and struggle behind that picture. Your knees haven't stopped you, and they won't in the future.
Looks sharp, I'd love to see more pictures.
Dan
With the VVT working the VE is much more aggressive in the mid range, for the 30mins of actual road tuning we did it runs ok.
What I am most interested in is if you can get your friend to share an ignition table, I can find tons of info for the GE engine but next to nothing on the GTE. The ign table in the tune Mike got looks like something I would use on a SBF not a VVT import.
I chose the side of caution and pulled quite a bit of timing.
As badly as I would like it not to be the case, the truth of the matter is that I have one.
An annoying vibration.
It comes on at 2500 rpm, and it’s there from then on. It isn’t noticible while revving the engine in neutral, but put that thing in gear and it’s there.
The engine is solid mounted. I can blame some of that on that, but Monster v1 was solid mounted as well, and I wasn’t that aware of any vibration like I am now. ( So,...no real hope that that is the issue) I didn’t change the driveshaft, but that doesn’t necessarily rule out the possibility that i have thrown a balance weight off. The only thing that is different with this new setup is that the driveshaft hangs further out of the tail housing. ( unlikely source of the problem I know)
My hope: The new wheels were notoriously out of round when I bought these things. It took three different wheels to get one that wasn’t out of round. The wheel guy at BMW was my go to when I mounted these things. By the time the second replacement came in for the one bad wheel and it was still out of round, I felt guilty about asking him to mount the wheel another time, so I used a different shop...Maybe the 3rd wheel was out of round too...
Im trying to remember how much I actually got to drive on the set before the old engine gave up...and whether I ignored the vibration back then or not...One thing that’s different this time around was/is that i’m definitely paying attention..And this time around I have it. I know one thing, I didn’t get too much seat time before that thing blew up.
So...I have a driveline based vibration that occurs at 2500 rpm, that isn’t noticeable in neutral....I’d think if a transmission mis-alignment was causing this, the engine is still spinning the internals in park just like it would be in drive.
What if,....I put the rear on jack stands, and removed the wheels and ran the engine in gear up to the point of the vibration.....I wonder if the vibration would still be there if there was no rear tires?
An annoying vibration.
It comes on at 2500 rpm, and it’s there from then on. It isn’t noticible while revving the engine in neutral, but put that thing in gear and it’s there.
The engine is solid mounted. I can blame some of that on that, but Monster v1 was solid mounted as well, and I wasn’t that aware of any vibration like I am now. ( So,...no real hope that that is the issue) I didn’t change the driveshaft, but that doesn’t necessarily rule out the possibility that i have thrown a balance weight off. The only thing that is different with this new setup is that the driveshaft hangs further out of the tail housing. ( unlikely source of the problem I know)
My hope: The new wheels were notoriously out of round when I bought these things. It took three different wheels to get one that wasn’t out of round. The wheel guy at BMW was my go to when I mounted these things. By the time the second replacement came in for the one bad wheel and it was still out of round, I felt guilty about asking him to mount the wheel another time, so I used a different shop...Maybe the 3rd wheel was out of round too...
Im trying to remember how much I actually got to drive on the set before the old engine gave up...and whether I ignored the vibration back then or not...One thing that’s different this time around was/is that i’m definitely paying attention..And this time around I have it. I know one thing, I didn’t get too much seat time before that thing blew up.
So...I have a driveline based vibration that occurs at 2500 rpm, that isn’t noticeable in neutral....I’d think if a transmission mis-alignment was causing this, the engine is still spinning the internals in park just like it would be in drive.
What if,....I put the rear on jack stands, and removed the wheels and ran the engine in gear up to the point of the vibration.....I wonder if the vibration would still be there if there was no rear tires?
Yes, but also no strain on the drivetrain when in neutral, and will be very little strain in the air with no rear tires. But it’s worth a try.
Wouldn’t “free spinning” the motor possibly cause different symptoms..... without having a load on it?
Edit : @95BlueStallion beat me to it.
Edit : @95BlueStallion beat me to it.
@Rdub6 @95BlueStallion
if it is the engine, it will vibrate in neutral and under load. Wheels & tires are balanced without a load. I think jack stands, running the wheels up to that speed to check for vibration and out of round, then running without the wheels is not a bad DIY plan.
if it is the engine, it will vibrate in neutral and under load. Wheels & tires are balanced without a load. I think jack stands, running the wheels up to that speed to check for vibration and out of round, then running without the wheels is not a bad DIY plan.
- Mar 2, 2015
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If it was the wheels is would be speed related....not rpm related. The torque converter is spinning with the engine even in neutral...but the load is gone. I can't imagine that monstrosity of a bell adapter flexing under load.
Driveshaft would vibrate but would be independent of engine rpm ( usually ) unless it's a u joint issue.
Could be some weird resonance going on.
Driveshaft would vibrate but would be independent of engine rpm ( usually ) unless it's a u joint issue.
Could be some weird resonance going on.
No..its definitely in the drive train. I tried making a video, and attempted a Datalog, and neither worked.
The video is so freakin noisy you can stand to watch it, and the suction mount transmitted so much vibration into the camera it was pointless to even try to watch it. The fcking computer crashed and shut itself down leaving me nothing.
I removed the rear wheels. the one i’m suspicious of has over a almost 5 ounces of weight added to the inside,
the other one has 1.
The wheel guy at BMW said they were sht wheels,...I believe he’s right. If the fcking wheel is out of round, i’m screwed. Trying to get those guys to get me another wheel after this much time will be a pain in the dick.
But that ain’t the problem though...the car on stands with no tires on back still has the vibration...reality check time.
I tried to couple the 4r 70 because that’s what I had. Now i’m back to square one. The guy in Australia that makes the 4l60e adapter either never got my email, or didn’t bother to reply. Even if he did, with the virus thing still going on, that may slow international shipping to a standstill.
So now i gotta figure out what i’m gonna do for a trans, and a set of wheels.
And on top of that,...... Even leaned out, the car‘s a slow ass pig.
The video is so freakin noisy you can stand to watch it, and the suction mount transmitted so much vibration into the camera it was pointless to even try to watch it. The fcking computer crashed and shut itself down leaving me nothing.
I removed the rear wheels. the one i’m suspicious of has over a almost 5 ounces of weight added to the inside,
the other one has 1.
The wheel guy at BMW said they were sht wheels,...I believe he’s right. If the fcking wheel is out of round, i’m screwed. Trying to get those guys to get me another wheel after this much time will be a pain in the dick.
But that ain’t the problem though...the car on stands with no tires on back still has the vibration...reality check time.
I tried to couple the 4r 70 because that’s what I had. Now i’m back to square one. The guy in Australia that makes the 4l60e adapter either never got my email, or didn’t bother to reply. Even if he did, with the virus thing still going on, that may slow international shipping to a standstill.
So now i gotta figure out what i’m gonna do for a trans, and a set of wheels.
And on top of that,...... Even leaned out, the car‘s a slow ass pig.
I’m sure Beamer has the latest and Greatest when it comes to a tire balancer etc. I’m sure the tire tech could match mount the tire to the rim (what kartheif said,but using the machine to tell you where to spin the tire on the rim for best balance.)
The tire is the least of my worries now..
I just stepped off the cliff and landed into reality town.
To put any other transmission in this car capable of withstanding *any power looks to be about 3 k.
* ( I don’t know why that would concern me..,...this thing doesn’t make any power to speak of)
Every Adapter to allow a 2 jz to mate a GM trans is built to withstand stupid power, and costs about a grand for the adapter.
The trans, looks to be about 500.00 in rebuildable condition.
A 10” lock up converter like what I have is about 600.00
The hard parts are another grand....
Looks like the 2 j version of this car will sit the rest of the year.
I just stepped off the cliff and landed into reality town.
To put any other transmission in this car capable of withstanding *any power looks to be about 3 k.
* ( I don’t know why that would concern me..,...this thing doesn’t make any power to speak of)
Every Adapter to allow a 2 jz to mate a GM trans is built to withstand stupid power, and costs about a grand for the adapter.
The trans, looks to be about 500.00 in rebuildable condition.
A 10” lock up converter like what I have is about 600.00
The hard parts are another grand....
Looks like the 2 j version of this car will sit the rest of the year.
I don't think a misalignment would cause that kind of vibration. I mean, it might be wearing the piss out of your thrust bearing or the pump bushing.
Now, the convertor, you had modified...did they rebalance that? Unbolt the convertor and crank it up. Engine or transmission??
Now, the convertor, you had modified...did they rebalance that? Unbolt the convertor and crank it up. Engine or transmission??
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