There is some open wifi nearby but the connectivity and speed is spotty so I'll just take the hit on my data plan. I have Project Fi and the max data for the month is $60 so if we use a bunch that's the worst it could get
1991 Turbo 306 coupe MS3/PiMPxs tuning adventure
- Thread starter wiseguyk
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I drained the oil as soon as I got to the shop today and strained it out of the oil drain pan and found no retainer clip or metal pieces. I then tried to use a flexible magnet in both the front and rear drain plug areas along with the strongest magnet I had dragging along the bottom of the pan and had no luck finding the retainer :/
I filled it back up and took a datalog of Rev 2.1.2 from a cold start. It surged pretty much the whole time, even once it was full warmed up. I didn't change anything while the datalog was running this time. Should I try your original 2.1.1 again you think?
I filled it back up and took a datalog of Rev 2.1.2 from a cold start. It surged pretty much the whole time, even once it was full warmed up. I didn't change anything while the datalog was running this time. Should I try your original 2.1.1 again you think?
I 100% agree, i just got done with a remote in to try and smooth this thing out for him. did not go as well as we had hoped, the AFR is very erratic nearing the minimum pw. The car even died while i tried to lower the ve and reduce the pw lower than 1.28ms to get the AFR above 13.5 at a reasonable idle speed.
I am convinced that swapping the injectors will reveal the culprit, Kyle only has the stock injectors to swap in but for testing they will do just fine i believe.
Steel1
Mustang Master
I'm not trying to get you anxious about that lost clip but I had a similar issue go wrong.
Built my 393w about 2yrs ago, after a few hundred miles the car left me on the side of the road.
Long story short...a spring clip from one of the rockers popped off and found it's way past
the pick-up screen and into the oil pump, locked up the pump and made a twizzler out of the
pump shaft. Although a BIG PIA it didn't do any more damage and we replaced the pump,
shaft and rockers.
I have recently purchased and installed PimpXS so I've been following your thread,
good luck !
Built my 393w about 2yrs ago, after a few hundred miles the car left me on the side of the road.
Long story short...a spring clip from one of the rockers popped off and found it's way past
the pick-up screen and into the oil pump, locked up the pump and made a twizzler out of the
pump shaft. Although a BIG PIA it didn't do any more damage and we replaced the pump,
shaft and rockers.
I have recently purchased and installed PimpXS so I've been following your thread,
good luck !
You're killin me Smalls!
Haha yeah I'm already pretty anxious about it, and there's one ore reason! Thanks for sharing your story though, I'm gonna be watching my oil pressure like a hawk until the clip has been found one way or another... I'm really hoping that it fell off in once piece and didn't break into small pieces and that it simply fell down into the front "hump" of the pan. If it did then maybe it'll stay in place there and not get sucked up into the pump or into the rotating assembly...It really sucks and if I ever have to do this again, I'm gonna take @a91what recommendation and NOT use that silly little clip and instead just RTV the shaft into the distributor. Just seems like by design it's just begging to fall off. Though, my distributor and oil pump shaft seem to have decided to never part ways anyway so if they're still working at that point no RTV needed lol
That's awesome you went with the PiMPxs too, it was so easy to install and I've been really happy so far with the documentation and info on the Stinger forums. Hopefully we find that all the trouble we've been having tuning it is due to bad injector(s) and not an issue with the PiMP itself so I don't have to take back my praise!
Oh and I just dug through pictures from back in January when we pulled the pan off to weld in the turbo oil drain bung and I was happy to see that the oil pump pickup has a pretty fine screen on it! That makes me feel at least a little bit better about the clip not getting sucked up into the pump
It was so long ago at this point that I couldn't remember what the pickup looked like and google images had me worried with pictures like this one that didn't appear to have a screen at all.
It was so long ago at this point that I couldn't remember what the pickup looked like and google images had me worried with pictures like this one that didn't appear to have a screen at all.
19's will probably be just fine to test some idle characteristics. I remember those old 42's were the go to for stock block turbo builds on gasoline. I bet a set can be had for next to nothing relative to these Deka's now.
I just got done building a small PW curve for these deka injectors i figure he can try it for giggles to see if it cleans things up at all..... not going to hold my breath but i hope we can keep him from having to buy another set of injectors.
Try this tune First Kyle
I was gonna ask you guys for your advice if I DO need to end up getting new injectors. I know the 60's were a bit overkill to begin with considering I have the stock block, but I went with them because I got them from On3 with the rest of my kit order and they were giving me a 10% discount. Would you recommend going with 42's or 47's (like Steve has) if we end up realizing my Deka's are fubar or a set of Ford Racing 60's? Just trying to do some research and brace myself for the worst if I end up needing to buy new ones.
Thanks Steve, I definitely will first thing when I get to the shop today. I still haven't decided if I'll take the plunge today and swap the 19's in if 2.2.0 doesn't make a difference. If I do put in the 19's tonight my only concern is that I might not have enough time to swap the 60's back in for the short trip to the exhaust shop tomorrow.
In your guys opinion, would the car be ok to "drive" next door on the 19 lb'ers tomorrow morning if I get them in tonight? If so, then I'll definitely try to swap them in tonight. I wish I could be off today and working on the car but sadly work is busy and I gotta be here...
42-47 on gas is probably perfectly fine. Get something name-brand with well established injector data. something from ford is good, even used or "take-outs" on a budget will work fine if in good condition.
If you have to swap them in, I think they'll work fine for putting around. You're not making much power at idle and cruise so 19lb injectors will probably suffice until you get something good.
Thanks for the advice man, I really appreciate it! I just wanted to make sure if I don't have time tonight to put the 60s back in that it would be ok to drive it over to the exhaust shop for the welding stuff tomorrow morning.
On that note, I went ahead and plugged in the calibration info for the stock 19lb injectors from here (https://performanceparts.ford.com/parts/ics/m-9593-c302.pdf) into the MS Deadtime Calculator to get an updated set of values so I could actually set them properly in my tune for tonight's test. Unless of course Steve's newest tune from this morning smooths things out in which case I'll just leave the 60's in
View: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1X1fYxrvp-zQpGf6UzTvlptF88O6dufhDz5XNA6-kTWM/edit#gid=302838282
If you or Steve have a chance to take a peek just as a sanity check that I didn't fat-finger something that would be awesome
I figure if I'm able to enter the actual deadtime and voltage numbers that the 19lb test would be more accurate rather than just increasing the fuel % arbitrarily...
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correct. you will also need to adjust the required fuel for the injector sizeThanks for the advice man, I really appreciate it! I just wanted to make sure if I don't have time tonight to put the 60s back in that it would be ok to drive it over to the exhaust shop for the welding stuff tomorrow morning.
On that note, I went ahead and plugged in the calibration info for the stock 19lb injectors from here (https://performanceparts.ford.com/parts/ics/m-9593-c302.pdf) into the MS Deadtime Calculator to get an updated set of values so I could actually set them properly in my tune for tonight's test. Unless of course Steve's newest tune from this morning smooths things out in which case I'll just leave the 60's in
View: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1X1fYxrvp-zQpGf6UzTvlptF88O6dufhDz5XNA6-kTWM/edit#gid=302838282
If you or Steve have a chance to take a peek just as a sanity check that I didn't fat-finger something that would be awesome
Ok, now from what you said last night I can simply adjust the injector PSI from 60 to 19. Is that correct, or do I have to also change the required fuel along with that? I thought you said it was one or the other but it was late so I don't trust my memory
Ok, now from what you said last night I can simply adjust the injector PSI from 60 to 19. Is that correct, or do I have to also change the required fuel along with that? I thought you said it was one or the other but it was late so I don't trust my memory
Sounds like you may be confused about what he said. You'll go to the required fuel function in tunerstudio and use 19 lb/hr instead of 60 lb/hr. Has nothing to do with PSI (pressure).
orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr you could keep the 60's and convert to e85 lol
Oops, yeah I meant lb/hr not PSI. Haha, I don't even know where to find e85 around here!Sounds like you may be confused about what he said. You'll go to the required fuel function in tunerstudio and use 19 lb/hr instead of 60 lb/hr. Has nothing to do with PSI (pressure).
orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr you could keep the 60's and convert to e85 lol
I just tried running it with the injector small pulsewidth changes applied to our tune from last night and it would try to start but wouldn't stay running (it was cold).
So I loaded up old v2.1.0 which I knew would run to let it warm up first. Then once warm, I loaded 2.2.0 and it surged REALLY bad.
See attached for the logs, I'm off to pull the 19 lb'ers off the old motor and start the swap process.
So I loaded up old v2.1.0 which I knew would run to let it warm up first. Then once warm, I loaded 2.2.0 and it surged REALLY bad.
See attached for the logs, I'm off to pull the 19 lb'ers off the old motor and start the swap process.
Well, just my luck... It seems the injectors in the old engine have been there since 91, so when I pulled them out half of them left the tips inside the lower intake.
The only thing I can think to try to get them out would be a pick tool, but no doubt I would mar the little caps if I tried to do that. I might just put them back in the old motor unless you guys can tell me that those caps are just for show lol.
Let me know if those caps are "optional" haha and I can still try em in the new motor but at this point I think I'm gonna have to find or borrow some injectors to test with :/
The only thing I can think to try to get them out would be a pick tool, but no doubt I would mar the little caps if I tried to do that. I might just put them back in the old motor unless you guys can tell me that those caps are just for show lol.
Let me know if those caps are "optional" haha and I can still try em in the new motor but at this point I think I'm gonna have to find or borrow some injectors to test with :/
- Jul 7, 2005
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Or just replace them with newWell, just my luck... It seems the injectors in the old engine have been there since 91, so when I pulled them out half of them left the tips inside the lower intake.
The only thing I can think to try to get them out would be a pick tool, but no doubt I would mar the little caps if I tried to do that. I might just put them back in the old motor unless you guys can tell me that those caps are just for show lol.
Let me know if those caps are "optional" haha and I can still try em in the new motor but at this point I think I'm gonna have to find or borrow some injectors to test with :/
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