Progress Thread 2.3L - crank no start issue. Has spark, fuel, good compression.

[joystang]

I will keep you guys posted!

I don't think it is either but at this point I don't really have any better ideas so f**k it, going to try lol. Only other idea I've come across besides tps and ign. switch is the alternator. Going to get the alt tested and check the ign. switch on Monday when I'm off. If those are both good I'll be ordering the tps on Friday. Hopefully one of those works.

No worries on being a "real" mechanic, I went to school to be a "real" mechanic and I'm struggling lol. Any assistance is appreciated no matter the source!

Thanks again everyone!

 

[General karthief]

So when you get back to the car try cranking with the gas peddle pushed down just a little, it you can use a noid light to see if it lights up as you slowly sweep the gas paddle from idle to almost WOT.
Also try cleaning the 'salt & pepper' connectors.

 

[joystang]

I will have to rent the noid lights Friday and see what that test yields

Don't have the salt n pepper connectors, that module failed previously so I just made my own using individual relays.

 

[JAA]

without sounding stupid, have you pulled spark plug one and ensured you are on the compression stroke? I read you checked that everything was aligned, but maybe just double check?

When I aligned mine backwards it would just crank.

Oh - and we are still waiting on pics

 

[joystang]

without sounding stupid, have you pulled spark plug one and ensured you are on the compression stroke? I read you checked that everything was aligned, but maybe just double check?

When I aligned mine backwards it would just crank.

Oh - and we are still waiting on pics

Lol yeah I've pulled spark plug one umpteen times and went out and bought the timing cover just to ensure that everything was lining up how it's supposed to be lol

Yeah that was my original hope lol

I work Thurs-Sun pretty much all day so I won't be able to get more pics other than my avatar till Monday. Never been a photo person lol

 

[AeroCoupe]

I am going to throw something out here. The distributor is what tells the EEC to pulse the injectors so if you have 12V to them but no pulse then I would suspect the hall effect sensor (PIP) is kaput.

 

[joystang]

I am going to throw something out here. The distributor is what tells the EEC to pulse the injectors so if you have 12V to them but no pulse then I would suspect the hall effect sensor (PIP) is kaput.

Oh forgot to mention in my op its distributorless. Crank sensor and the crank hub have been replaced and test good

 

[joystang]

Oh forgot to mention in my op its distributorless. Crank sensor and the crank hub have been replaced and test go

Pip signal comes out of the oven but the computer isn't grounding it. I tried replacing the computer with no change and I moved all the grounds to the - batt terminal. Still no change ‍

 

[joystang]

Pip signal comes out of the oven but the computer isn't grounding it. I tried replacing the computer with no change and I moved all the grounds to the - batt terminal. Still no change ‍

*Icrm not oven lol

 

[General karthief]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention it has twin hair dryers with helium injection, no biggie
that could change things a bit
You said you replaced the salt & pepper shakers with relays? Explain this.
What wiring is stock and what's been added/deleted.
Tell us about the distributor -less ignition system, is that stock 93 4cyl?
Now, I'm not an expert but I think it is a bad idea to have the ECM grounded directly to the battery.
Just say'n.
We'll get you motor'n here in a minute.

 

[General karthief]

Note: did some poking around, the 93 4cyl mustang is distributor -less and duel plug, sound like what you got?

 

[AeroCoupe]

I should have remembered that being my Coupe was originally a 4 cylinder and it was in fact distributerless and had dual
plugs…gutless wonder it was.

 

[AeroCoupe]

I found this:

https://www.allfordmustangs.com/threads/1993-mustang-fuel-injectors-not-pulsing.237840/

If you are getting spark the crank sensor is working.

 

[joystang]

Yeah it's a stock distributorless dual plug. The entire stock wiring harness was scrapped and I remade. I remade the control module that holds the relays for fuel pump, fan, eec, and a/c.

Might've been gutless in a mustang frame but it flies in the Joyner frame lol

It is getting spark

 

[joystang]

Hey everyone,

Here are some pics as well as the results from today and a recap of diagnostic details: (no distributor, dual plug)

Alternator tested good (2x)

Ing switch & connector tested good

Tried to use a test light instead of a noid light to see if there was any signal during cranking while opening the throttle, didn't get any results but going to try again Friday with an actual noid.

Hooked up injector + wire to fender mounted voltage regulator, voltage dropped from 12.6v to 10.8v during cranking (better than when it was dropping to mV when hooked up to 37/57) but still doesn't start or get - signal

Pulled codes again, got the same ones as last time:
334 - EGR closed valve voltage higher than expected
522 - Vehicle not in PARK or NEUTRAL during KOEO (have tried putting in park, neutral, and bypassing the switch, none work to clear the code, shows up on new eec as well.
519 - Power Steering Pressure Switch (PSPS) circuit open (p/s non op)
565 - Canister Purge (CANP) circuit failure (doesn't have)
558 - EGR Vacuum Regulator (EVR) circuit failure (doesn't have)

Opened up old eec and a new one to compare internals, old one looked just as good as the new one except for some minor corrosion down by where the bottom of the case is plugged.

Getting spark at plugs and connectors on ircm were recently replaced, are clean and test good.

Getting pip signal from ckps to the ircm, from the ircm to the eec, but not getting the signal from the ecc to the injectors (one pulse occurs when key is released and cranking stops)

Swapped old eec for new eec, still didn't start

Continuity and a 0.0ohm reading on all wires involved in firing the injectors

Bare bonz fuse box from Ron francis, rest of the wiring harness was made by me.

Fuel, fan, and eec relays working fine

All eec grounds end at - batt terminal

Battery new and tests good, terminal connectors are new as well

 

[joystang]

Alright so after some retesting, research, and thought I think I might've figured out the problem but I don't have/can't find the knowledge to verify it.

Here are my thoughts:
Fuel injectors do not get a pulse when engine is cranked by the starter.
Everything involved in firing the injectors when tested by turning the crank by hand test good.
Crankshaft position sensor, fuel injectors, wiring harness, ignition switch are all new and in good condition
New eec, tps didn't fix problem
Only component still stock is icm
(Here's where I lose verifiable data and begin to theorize/)
Could the icm fail in such a way that it loses the ability to pickup/send the pip signal reliably for the fuel injectors at rotation speeds higher than by hand but still fire the spark plugs when they're supposed to?

Can I wire it so the icm still gets the pip signal to fire the spark plugs but bypass the icm for the injectors?

Any thoughts? Am I over thinking this or is something like that really possible? I really don't want to buy a new icm for it to not fix the problem but I'm running out of ideas and diagnostic tests and none of them are getting me any closer to fixing the problem

Like always, any help is appreciated! I need to get this up and running asap, I need it to get to both my jobs!

 

[joystang]

There is a single pulse when the key is released and the engine rotation is slowed which is what inspired the above thoughts.

 

[General karthief]

Yeah, this is getting confusing, so if you get a injector signal with the key on and turning the engine by hand have you tried key on and cranking the engine by jumping the started from the solenoid?
I still think you have a wiring issue
don't over think it. Let me look for someone here, there was a thread about a aftermarket wiring kit and ground problems.
be back later.

 

[AeroCoupe]

Just spit balling here but it sounds like you are loosing 12V+ to something during crank only. I say this due to they fire when you crank the motor by hand and you get one pulse when the key moves back to the "run" position which then gets 12V+ back to the injectors. Basically I am agreeing with the General that you have a wiring issue.

 

[joystang]

Yeah, this is getting confusing, so if you get a injector signal with the key on and turning the engine by hand have you tried key on and cranking the engine by jumping the started from the solenoid?
I still think you have a wiring issue
don't over think it. Let me look for someone here, there was a thread about a aftermarket wiring kit and ground problems.
be back later.

So I tried jumping the starter from the solenoid and the noid light flashes while cranking. (Yay! ). So I take it that confirms it is a wiring issue, like you guys thought. So my question now is what next? Unfortunately my good dmm quit on me so I can't continue with any kind of amperage diagnostics at the moment, I have another that should be here on the 5th, but is there anything I can do until I get the replacement? I have one of the basic, cheap ones from Autozone that does voltage, ohm, diode and continuity. I've already rerouted the grounds to there stock locations. Thanks again for all the help so far and any that comes!