351 Cleveland swapped MII

78 Mach1 · Jan 19, 2024

Just an update, I’m still working this project. I got sidetracked with head work and what not. I have decided to keep moving forward and save the 4v heads for a later upgrade. I just need to get this car running and stop getting sidetracked with other go fast goodies. lol.

Anyway, I am looking into Sanderson shorty block hugger headers now to see those will fit in my tiny space available. I may have to order a set and just try them.

Blackhawkxx · Jan 27, 2024

78 Mach1 said:
Anyway, I am looking into Sanderson shorty block hugger headers now to see those will fit in my tiny space available. I may have to order a set and just try them.

I ran across these today, I wonder if they could be useful if the Winsor and Cleveland headers are spaced the same, I don't remember.

Link to headers

78 Mach1 · Feb 14, 2024

I am certain that Windsor headers won’t work with a Cleveland. However, those are similar to what I’m thinking I need. Just for a Cleveland.

Noobz347 · Feb 14, 2024

Client Challenge

Causes cancer in California fuitardz

78 Mach1 · Mar 8, 2024

I ordered Sanderson FC4 headers today. I have been doing a ton of research and these seem to be the closest to fitting my space available. I’m confident I’ll be doing some frame rail notching for them to clear completely. But we will see once they arrive.

On the drivers side, I have to go down just behind the cross member with the exhaust pipe to get anything to fit. But the below brace is in the way.
It’s the painted black brace between the cross member and the bell housing. It bolts between the two track bars. I think it just braces those. I can easily build my own out of pipe to make clearance for my exhaust. But my question is, is it even necessary? Has anybody on here removed this brace? Did it affect anything? Just trying to see if I need to fabricate a replacement to fit my exhaust past it, or if I can just delete it.

LILCBRA · Mar 8, 2024

I haven't had that in my car for years. It doesn't seem to affect much, but I'm sure there's a reason it's there....

78 Mach1 · Mar 8, 2024

Sounds good. I’ll probably fabricate a replacement of some sort. But it’s good to know I don’t have to be in a hurry to do it. I’ll just remove it for now. That will give me plenty of room for my exhaust on the drivers side. Now the passenger side is where my big concerns are.

I actually was able to get a factory Cleveland exhaust manifold to bolt up on passenger and driver side. But the collector dumps right into the steering linkage on the drivers side. So that’s a no go. My hope is the Sanderson header tucks in to the block tighter.

Blackhawkxx · Mar 8, 2024

78 Mach1 said:
I’ll probably fabricate a replacement of some sort.

I would. More bracing on a unibody car is always better and even more so when you add the torque of the mighty 351C.

78 Mach1 · Mar 27, 2024

Finally got my headers. They are Sanderson FC4 ceramic coated. These things fought me every step of the way. If anyone is reading this thread for information to do this swap. These are not the headers to use. I had to modify a lot of things. Including sectioning part of the passenger side frame rail. But they are in.

Blackhawkxx · Mar 27, 2024

After all your work, will they go in or out without lifting the engine?

78 Mach1 · Mar 27, 2024

Yes. I only have to remove the oil filter to install the drivers side. Nothing for passengers side.

But I do still have one hurdle to overcome.
The steering shaft interferes with the drivers side. I am trying to come up with a solution.

As you can see in the below photo. I have about an inch of interference. I hope someone on here may have a suggestion.

78 Mach1 · Mar 27, 2024

If I can rotate the steering rack towards the firewall. This changes the shaft angle just enough to clear the header. I tested this theory and works perfectly. I’m just not sure of the practicality of this option in actual practice.

Another option would be if there is a steering rack that has the shaft in a slightly different location. One inch farther towards the drivers side would do it. Or if there is a rack that the shaft comes out at a different angle. Slightly more down or slightly more towards drivers side would clear.

The irony to this is, me moving the engine 1 1/4” towards the drivers side to center it, created this problem. So here we are. Things are snowballing quickly.

78 Mach1 · Mar 27, 2024

Also, I forgot to mention, after sectioning the passenger side frame rail, the factory upper A arm is ridiculously close to the header. I’m concerned this will be too restrictive to front end alignments. After doing some research I have come to the conclusion tubular upper A arms will solve this issue. I’ve got them on order.

Noobz347 · Mar 28, 2024

I know it's of no use now but we had a conversation along this line not too long ago.

The consensus has been to get uncoated headers, beat, bang, cut, and stretch into submission, and [then] paint or coat.

In your case, because of where the collector ended up, a set of long tubes might get you where you need to be?

extra_stout · Mar 28, 2024

78 Mach1 said:
If I can rotate the steering rack towards the firewall. This changes the shaft angle just enough to clear the header. I tested this theory and works perfectly. I’m just not sure of the practicality of this option in actual practice.

Another option would be if there is a steering rack that has the shaft in a slightly different location. One inch farther towards the drivers side would do it. Or if there is a rack that the shaft comes out at a different angle. Slightly more down or slightly more towards drivers side would clear.

The irony to this is, me moving the engine 1 1/4” towards the drivers side to center it, created this problem. So here we are. Things are snowballing quickly.

Exhaust is a big problem on this cars... even with a 302 over axle pipes in 2.5 inch are barley possible.

Anyway, here some thoughts:
I installed a fox steering rack (https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=30774&cc=1140297&jsn=10552) and it looks to me, that the steering shaft is much shorter than yours. I also used a borgeson u-joint with a double DD end and a splined end that fits the fox steering rack. I than cut and grind the OEM steering shaft down to the double DD. The Fox steering rack is much lighter (alu housing) and has a quick ratio, which feels great with a low pressure pump (around 70-75 bar). I will post some pictures if i find them in short time in my build thread.
Beside that: could you move the engine back this 1 1/4'' regarding passenger side exhaust clearance?!

extra_stout · Mar 28, 2024

Looking at the picture, i think the steering input shaft ends at the same location as yours. You have a manual steering rack? than there is less steering rack housing around the steering input shaft... You could shorten the steering input shaft and weld an universal u-joint on?!
I hope you find a quick way to solve that issue.

LILCBRA · Mar 28, 2024

Offset rack and pinion bushing?

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/T-Bird-Offset-Rack-Pinion-Mount-Bushings,51390.html

78 Mach1 · Mar 29, 2024

Yes. I’ve been looking at the offset bushing options. I think I can do a combination of several things that will yield the clearance I need. I’m considering raising the engine 1/2”. I’m also considering moving the engine 1/2” forward. Doing both of these options would give me roughly an inch of clearance between the header and shaft. Then I plan to rotate the steering rack towards the firewall. This by itself will yield the most clearance. But I am limited by how much I can rotate it. I want to rotate it the least amount necessary to prevent any extreme angles on my u joints on the steering shaft.

extra_stout said:
I also used a borgeson u-joint with a double DD end and a splined end that fits the fox steering rack. I than cut and grind the OEM steering shaft down to the double DD.

I already installed a second I joint when I converted from power steering to manual steering. With the second u joint in place, this should give me some options to rotate the rack and still stay within the operating angles of my steering shaft. My thought is to use offset bushings to create this angle. By clocking the front and rear offset bushing 180 degrees from each other (front down, back up) then drilling the middle out to create a smooth consistent hole, this would rotate the rack slightly back causing the rack steering shaft to move at a more downward angle. This would create the most clearance. But I obviously am limited by how much I can rotate it to not put the shaft at too extreme of an angle. I just haven’t found anywhere online where anyone else has done this. So I’m questioning if there is a reason no one has done it. Will it cause any steering issues.

78 Mach1 · Mar 29, 2024

I considered just moving the hole rack 1” towards the drivers side, but this would move my tie rod pivot points 1” out of sync with the control arms pivot points and potentially cause bump steer issues. I could move the rack housing and not the pivot points, by adjusting the alignment, but this would give me less cornering ability in one direction versus the other. Not ideal. So moving the hole things as a unit would be best except for changing the pivot locations. If there was away to to extend the internal shaft that one inch on passenger side and shorten 1” on drivers side, that would correct the tie rod pivot points. I’m just not sure if this is possible.

LILCBRA · Mar 29, 2024

78 Mach1 said:
I considered just moving the hole rack 1” towards the drivers side

They make rack extenders that would probably get you there.

HEXRACKEX1 Helix 1 Mustang II Steering Rack Inner Tie Rod Extension - Each 12 | johnnylawmotors.com

PMID-1237123: Helix 1" rear steering rack/inner tie rod extension for power or manual steering rack & pinion unit. One extender used inside each inner tie rod t

www.johnnylawmotors.com

351 Cleveland swapped MII

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