351 Cleveland swapped MII

[Bullitt347]

When we built this Cleveland we did get the oil restriction plugs put in. It also has the oil modification kit installed which routes oil from the block right at the oil pump to the back of the block to force feed oil to the number 4 and 5 main and rod journals. You can see the oil tube crossing the intake in my pictures. That will supposedly significantly help with the inherent oil starvation issue. I’m no expert, that’s just what I’ve learned through research. However, there are some people out there that believe another part of the problem is the oil pump will pump oil into the valve covers faster than the heads allow it to drain back to the oil pump. At high rpm’s this causes oil starvation at the pump. One YouTuber claims he tested this theory and ended up with 3 quarts of the 5 quart capacity in the valve covers during a dyno pull. I don’t know for sure if this is factual, but that’s the information out there right now.

My thought is if that is true, having higher capacity oil pan could help in this situation.

I would then be concentrating on improving the flow back from the heads if that is the issue. That sounds like it is just time and effort, not much in parts, if any.
The other question is, how long do you anticipate being at WOT? Outside of a Drag Strip, is there really an opportunity to be at WOT for over 10 seconds straight? A typical oil pump will move between 5-8 gallons a min at max rpm. At 7 Gal a min, you would move 4.66 qrts in 10 seconds.

 

[78 Mach1]

Wow. That’s a radical set up.

 

[78 Mach1]

The other question is, how long do you anticipate being at WOT?

Your exactly right. This car is quite honestly going to be all bark and not much bite. That’s been the theme of the build from day one. Make it look like a street race car built in the late 70s early 80s. I want it to sound mean and have a really cool stance. But I do not intend to race this car. It’s going to be more of a cruiser for me. Which is funny considering the things I’m doing to it.

At this point, I’ll just go with it as is and if I notice any oiling issues. Address them then. I can’t anticipate and correct every potential problem now. Otherwise I’ll never get the car done. My goal is to get it running and driving. Then sort out any unforeseen issues.

 

[78 Mach1]

I came to the conclusion that I do not like the way the motor plate looked. Mainly the way the fuel pump forced me to trim around it. So I guess I’ll be doing an electric pump.

I removed the fuel pump and used an old block off plate I had left over from a previous build.

 

[78 Mach1]

Here’s a rough mock up of what the plate will look like now. A lot less curves and more blocky. Looks better to me.

This will most likely change as I start adding accessories. But hopefully I don’t find to many more interference issues.

 

[78 Mach1]

I have also come to the conclusion that I will have to run a manual steering rack. Good news is that will open up some much needed header room.

 

[78 Mach1]

I would then be concentrating on improving the flow back from the heads if that is the issue.

Just to clarify. Your correct. And I will eventually address that problem. From my research I can drill out the oil return holes to help with this. The current heads on the motor are mostly stock. I have another set we are building with adjustable studs and roller rockers. I will try to fix this problem on that set of heads.
Just for now, I don’t want to slow progress at this time. But in future, we will hopefully fix that problem once and for all.

 

[Bullitt347]

Just to clarify. Your correct. And I will eventually address that problem. From my research I can drill out the oil return holes to help with this. The current heads on the motor are mostly stock. I have another set we are building with adjustable studs and roller rockers. I will try to fix this problem on that set of heads.
Just for now, I don’t want to slow progress at this time. But in future, we will hopefully fix that problem once and for all.

On my race car, I run a High Volume oil pump.
It has a Canton 7 qrt race pan on it, side kick out, fully baffled, trap doors, windage tray the works.
I also have a Star Machine EVAC pump that pulls about 15" of vacuum in the crankcase.
I only run 5 qrts of oil in that 7 qrt pan.
I did the math, it is impossible for the oil pump to run out of oil during a pass. Not just from the gallons per min. specs, but realizing that a lot of that oil gets back to the pan during that time.
So far after 4 years of racing, oil pressure has never been an issue, and when the engine was torn down for a re-fresh, the bearings looked like new.
363 SBF spinning 8K + rpm

 

[Blackhawkxx]

I only run 5 qrts of oil in that 7 qrt pan.

From what I have seen on Engine Masters, pan oil height can cost significant horsepower. They had a let's say 7 qt pan and dyno it, drain out a 1/2 qt and dyno it, on and on. It did make a difference until it got to a level that it didn't.

 

[2Blue2]

I like the new plate design.

 

[78 Mach1]

I like the new plate design.

Thanks. I was curious if the new design looked better to others or if it was just me.

I will hopefully be cutting it out of 1/4” 6061 aluminum today. It’s really cold here, so we will see if I devide to brave the cold to get it done.

 

[78 Mach1]

Blackhawkxx. I watched the same episode of engine masters. I obviously have a lot more to learn on the Cleveland oiling system and potential issues. But since max horsepower isn’t my main goal, I’m going to run the recommended oil level or maybe even just slightly over as a precaution until I get this engine completely sorted out.

I have another Cleveland on the stand which will most likely get a much more radical build. My current engine is mostly stock.

 

[85GTStangGuy]

Thanks. I was curious if the new design looked better to others or if it was just me.

I will hopefully be cutting it out of 1/4” 6061 aluminum today. It’s really cold here, so we will see if I devide to brave the cold to get it done.

Yea, new plate design looks more stout without the fuel pump notch and top reliefs.

Isn't it going to welded to the round stock? Looks like the round stock is hrs tubing. Or am I mistaken?

 

[78 Mach1]

Isn't it going to welded to the round stock?

No. The round stock is steel. I am going to weld tabs to the round stock and then bolt the aluminum plate to the tabs.

 

[78 Mach1]

I did get the plate cut out in 1/4” 6061 aluminum. Here it is.

 

[78 Mach1]

Here are the tabs welded to the bushings and all holes drilled in the plate.

Ready to install.

 

[78 Mach1]

Here is everything installed. Factory motor mounts removed and the plate holding the engine in its final location. I was able to center it perfectly.

 

[78 Mach1]

Now engine and tranny will come back out tomorrow to clearance the trans tunnel, finish welding the mounts to the frame, and build an inspection plate for the small Mustang II bell housing. I apparently don’t have one that fits. So I’ll be making one.

That seems to be the way it goes with this car. Everything has to be custom made.

 

[78 Mach1]

Pulled the engine and tranny today so I can clearance the trans tunnel. Finish weld the motor mounts and swap the power steering rack to a manual rack.

 

[78 Mach1]

Since I had some extra time this evening. I went ahead and started plumbing up the fuel lines.