My friend just bought a 1973 Mach 1 with the 351 2 barrel. I dont think he wants to go fuel injection so most of my recommendations to him are useless. So I was wondering what a good head, cam, intake, carb combo would be good to give him some reliable street power, nothing too extreme but enough to make a solid street car. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
73 mach 1 top end
- Thread starter natedogg302
- Start date
Edelbrock makes some heads and intake manifold for the Cleveland (although even 2V Cleveland heads flow decently and work well on the street), to add to that I would personally bolt on a Holley carb, electronic ignition, longtube headers and 2.5" dual exhaust, swap to a deeper set of rear gears (limited slip), add a shift kit and a performance cam (I have had very good sucess with Comp Cams and Lunati, Edelbrock is decent too if you are adding their heads/manifold)
i was thinking for some reson we were talking about a windsor, guess that comes from owning one for so long. but yeah if it is a cleveland edelbrock is about the only place to get aluminum heads. there are a couple of other companies that make cleveland heads but they are seriously high dollar, the e'brock heads are a little more reasonable.
i'd still recommend looking into the e'brock performer kit. comp and crane both make excellent cams as does lunati. i have a speed pro cam in my car at the moment and it's a decent cam not anything really super special but it is a good all around street performance cam.
i'd still recommend looking into the e'brock performer kit. comp and crane both make excellent cams as does lunati. i have a speed pro cam in my car at the moment and it's a decent cam not anything really super special but it is a good all around street performance cam.
bnickel said:
you're better off with a set of 4V quench heads then the edelbrock heads, they flow better. and stay away from any open chamber heads be they the 2V or 4V.
the best intake available for the cleveland is from blue thunder. as for the edelbrbock performer intake, you're better off sticking with the factory 4V intake.
I'm the friend who just got the 73 Mach 1. I'm not looking for anything crazy, but I do want a solid street car/weekend bracket toy. I know the 351C 2V was rated at 175hp, which I am hoping contains some traditional Ford underrating. I know it's a heavy car so I am figuring that I want to target around 400 hp at the tire. I'm not thinking that 400+ should really be a problem...or am I crazy? And another question....what times should I be running with 400 or so hp.
Erics73Mach1 said:
400hp at the tires is actually quite a huge undertaking. assuming the typical 20% loss through the drivetran with an automatic that's 500hp at the flywheel.
400hp at the flywheel is easier to accomplish and the above e'brock kit i mentioned with a good ignition, headers and exhaust is will be just about right. use the performer RPM air gap intake instead of the regular performer intake.
bnickel said:
Thanks for the help. Of course 400hp at the flywheel is easier, but I have a feeling that I'll be wanting more power with a car that heavy. I think I'd be happy with a high 11, low 12 sec quarter. I'm pretty much expecting to do the whole motor from the bottom up, so I would hope with some Pistons and alittle block work, and the right combination up top, that 400hp at the tire isn't out of the question. Maybe my goal is alittle lofty, but Go Big or Go Home Right?
if you're going to try and get that much out of it you need to be thinking about a stroker kit and you also need to do some research on the cleveland oiling system. IMO if you try to get that much HP out of a clevie it will no longer be very streetable unless you go with a 400+ cubic inch stroker kit and even then it will be marginal on the street so you might also want investigate the possibility of installing a centrifugal supercharger like one from paxton or vortech.
like i said before to get 400hp at the wheels you'll need right at 500hp at the crank. that is going to be pushing the limits of a stock cleveland block as well, since the cylinder walls are notoriously thin on clevie blocks. i know from experience just how thin they are. my old 70 cougar had a 351c 2v in it when i bought the car and was completely stock except for a performer intake and 600 holley. i was on the highway headed for home from work (about 50 miles) and was doing about 65-70 mph when one of the rods let go. it took out the other rod on that crank throw and split the cylinder wall on both of those cylinders. the wierd part is that both rods let go at the big end of the rod, both big ends were still attached to the crank and both pistons were still in their respective cylinders and pushed all the way to the top. both cylinders were split from about the middle of the wall all the way to the top and i can tell you they were very thin even with a factory bore. i would say they were probably around 1/16" inch thick or LESS. so keep that in mind when you're thinking about building a 500hp cleveland
like i said before to get 400hp at the wheels you'll need right at 500hp at the crank. that is going to be pushing the limits of a stock cleveland block as well, since the cylinder walls are notoriously thin on clevie blocks. i know from experience just how thin they are. my old 70 cougar had a 351c 2v in it when i bought the car and was completely stock except for a performer intake and 600 holley. i was on the highway headed for home from work (about 50 miles) and was doing about 65-70 mph when one of the rods let go. it took out the other rod on that crank throw and split the cylinder wall on both of those cylinders. the wierd part is that both rods let go at the big end of the rod, both big ends were still attached to the crank and both pistons were still in their respective cylinders and pushed all the way to the top. both cylinders were split from about the middle of the wall all the way to the top and i can tell you they were very thin even with a factory bore. i would say they were probably around 1/16" inch thick or LESS. so keep that in mind when you're thinking about building a 500hp cleveland
DukeGnarley
Member
Everything I've seen has been sitting around the 3800 lb mark.DukeGnarley said:
A stroker kit is definitely not out of the question, but I am really surprised that you are thinking the motor might not be able to handle it. I've heard alot of people say this is the perfect motor to build up. I guess I'll have to look into it alittle more and maybe adjust my target alittle, but a Muscleless Mach 1 just isn't something I can own.
Thanks for everything!
Erics73Mach1 said:
for a street car you need to worry more about torque, than hp. a stroker kit, fairly mild cam and good ignition, induction and exhaust will get you a 12 second car pretty easily. and that mach should weigh in at about 35-3600 not 3800. maybe 3800 with a 429 and automatic and every option available, including power windows.
you can also do a lot to lighten the car up. remove all the factory sound deadening and ditch everything that is not useful.
Anyone have any experience with Speedomotive Stroker kits? I found another website (who I won't mention to make sure the moderators are kept happy...I'm new here!) who did a Cleveland Powerhouse" build up with a Speedomotive 408 stroker kit. Sounds like this kit with a decent set of heads, exhaust, intake, and ignition and I'll be damn close to 500 crank hp.
Also....heads? Any experience with CHI? I have a 351C 2V and they make a 2V and 3V head that will work. Just curious.
I'm hoping to not have to lighten up and ditch too much, because I want this to be a street cruiser. If I were going the drag route, then I would definitely gut everything, but I'd like this to be a more comfortable car to drive. My strip time will be limited to a Friday night bracket run a couple times a year, but that's it.
Also....heads? Any experience with CHI? I have a 351C 2V and they make a 2V and 3V head that will work. Just curious.
I'm hoping to not have to lighten up and ditch too much, because I want this to be a street cruiser. If I were going the drag route, then I would definitely gut everything, but I'd like this to be a more comfortable car to drive. My strip time will be limited to a Friday night bracket run a couple times a year, but that's it.
302 coupe
Founding Member
a comfortable cruiser with a 500 horse small block, running 11's while weighing 3800lbs. No sweat! I hope you've got the money. It can be done, and has been done, but it takes careful planning and sufficient resources. Clevelands are meant to run hard, but I think you'd be better off with a 429 or 460 in a car that heavy where street use and comfort are desired.
Erics73Mach1 said:
AFR is another company that makes cylinder heads for the cleveland www.airflowresearch.com/ and a good http:forum for all things cleveland is http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/ the forewarned that most of these guys are hardcore racers but they definitely know what works and what doesn't. on the forum the concensous i've picked up is that both AFR and CHI make a good product, but stay away from the edelbrocks. they're not worth the money. FWIW i like the CHI 3v and will probably go that route when i rebuild my cleveland, along with a stroker kit to 408ci.
the cleveland block has a stronger bottom end than the windsor. the only benefit to using a windsor block is that you can overbore it a lot more. .30 over is considered the max for a cleveland block. don't worry about the "oiling issue", that is easily fixed a number of ways from external lines to restrictor plugs in the valley.
jes72mustang
New Member
Erics73Mach1
if you want cleveland build advice from guys who are hardcore cleveland builders and racers visit: http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/
Everyone here has a lot of good information, and I personally respect all advice I get here, however there is a lot of opinion also. There are also a lot of myths and misconceptions about cleveland blocks and head selection. I am still learning about my cleveland and don't claim to be an expert, and I am not saying that anyone here is giving you wrong advice. I am simply suggesting another source to cross reference information.
Good luck with the build, I look forward to hearing how it goes.
if you want cleveland build advice from guys who are hardcore cleveland builders and racers visit: http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/
Everyone here has a lot of good information, and I personally respect all advice I get here, however there is a lot of opinion also. There are also a lot of myths and misconceptions about cleveland blocks and head selection. I am still learning about my cleveland and don't claim to be an expert, and I am not saying that anyone here is giving you wrong advice. I am simply suggesting another source to cross reference information.
Good luck with the build, I look forward to hearing how it goes.
