• Mustang Forums
  • 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-
  • Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech

Engine 93 Mustang GT, Code 41/91, KOER Cylinder ID shows 6 and not 8

  • Thread starter Thread starter 79MercCapri93
  • Start date Start date Apr 28, 2019
Prev
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
Next
First Prev 2 of 4 Next Last
7

79MercCapri93

Member
May 12, 2012
86
7
8
May 11, 2019
#21
  • May 11, 2019
  • #21
Cleaned the connectors, used dielectric grease on them, and still getting 41/91. I have my other EGR on the car currently and the CEL comes on way more often then before. It comes on while driving both to and from work now, rather then just on my way home.

I am going to use the block off plate and the CEL plug eliminator for the EGR for a short stint. That way i can get a better idea of where this issue is stemming from and to try and rule out the EGR being the source of the problem. Would it be worth trying to using some RTV under the TPS sensor? When i did the smoke test there was smoke coming out from around not, and want to rule that out as an issue as well.

All of my spark plugs look great with the exception of them being white.
 
Last edited: May 11, 2019
7

79MercCapri93

Member
May 12, 2012
86
7
8
May 11, 2019
#22
  • May 11, 2019
  • #22
I also plan to check my PCV valve grommet to make sure that its not loose or pulling in air either
 
7

79MercCapri93

Member
May 12, 2012
86
7
8
May 11, 2019
#23
  • May 11, 2019
  • #23
@jrichker

I have been trying to scour the forums and using google searches but for some reason i cannot find previous posts you made and was hoping you might be able to retrieve a little easier then me.

Disregard this part jrichker, i searched using the forums rather than google and found it quite quickly. (I remember reading a post about lower intake slipped gasket and something created by I believe you and Tmoss for trying to do a test for this without pulling the entire intake to check.)

I was also looking for a post on how to test the 02's to insure they are actually being "heated" to rule out that possibility of a bad fusible link. Or can i just probe both sides of the wire in the harness around the fusible link with the key forward and see if there is 12vdc? Thank you for all of your help!
 
Last edited: May 11, 2019

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
20+ Year Stangneter
Aug 25, 2016
27,954
10,598
203
polk county florida
May 11, 2019
#24
  • May 11, 2019
  • #24
If you want to get a members attention put a @ in front of the screen name, ie @jrichker
 
7

79MercCapri93

Member
May 12, 2012
86
7
8
May 11, 2019
#25
  • May 11, 2019
  • #25
General karthief said:
If you want to get a members attention put a @ in front of the screen name, ie @jrichker
Click to expand...

Thanks!
 
7

79MercCapri93

Member
May 12, 2012
86
7
8
May 12, 2019
#26
  • May 12, 2019
  • #26
Got home this morning and changed out the EGR for the delete plate and eliminator plug. I also checked the PCV grommet and it was way loose. I dont know why it never crossed my mind before, but i dont remember getting a 41/91 before, but i changed the TPS, PCV, Grommet, and Wire Mesh all at the same time a couple of weeks ago. Im hoping that this has finally fixed the issue and if so i can put my EGR back on and see if all is well with that to. Did not get to drive my car today, but I will be tomorrow, so wish me luck!
 
Reactions: General karthief
7

79MercCapri93

Member
May 12, 2012
86
7
8
May 13, 2019
#27
  • May 13, 2019
  • #27
Drove the car to work, no check engine lights on. Now to see if they come on during the drive home
 
Reactions: General karthief
7

79MercCapri93

Member
May 12, 2012
86
7
8
May 14, 2019
#28
  • May 14, 2019
  • #28
Excitement short lived, CEL came on right before I got home. 33,41,91. Wont be able to drive it again until Wednesday.

But eliminating the EGR did not solve the problem. Any other thoughts on what could be causing the car to run lean?
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
20+ Year Stangneter
Aug 25, 2016
27,954
10,598
203
polk county florida
May 14, 2019
#29
  • May 14, 2019
  • #29
This is a long shot, actually two.
seems to me that the lean condition is happening during the cruise mode (?) And maybe you need to inspect the vacuum line from the purge solenoid to the fuel tank. This may involve dropping the tank. Also on another stang I worked on had a problem with the air idle control valve hanging open, but this effected the idle on that car too.
I will also mention that a deteriorating lower intake gasket was a problem on my car, I have had my intake off soooo many times in the past that I could do it in my sleep, and likely the reason I call it the exxon valdez because the last time I didn't get the back rail sealed up good and it leaks from there.
Yeah, I was asleep on that one.
 
7

79MercCapri93

Member
May 12, 2012
86
7
8
May 14, 2019
#30
  • May 14, 2019
  • #30
Yeah to me it seems to occur just as I come out of a cruising speed.

I replaced a section of the vapor line by the rear axle that had been pinched, and use clamps and rubber fuel line to fix that. It was about a 1 inch section where the exhaust pinched it. I now have dumps so that shouldn’t be an issue anymore.
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
20+ Year Stangneter
Aug 25, 2016
27,954
10,598
203
polk county florida
May 14, 2019
#31
  • May 14, 2019
  • #31
Still it continues up and over the fuel tank and I think has a rubber hose connection to the valve.
 
7

79MercCapri93

Member
May 12, 2012
86
7
8
May 14, 2019
#32
  • May 14, 2019
  • #32
I sprayed air intake cleaner around my TPS and noticed a very slight change in the idle ( i had to spray directly at the base of the TPS and a couple of seconds later the idle would change), so i put some silicone around it as a "test" and drove it to work today to see if that does anything. Really don't have the money to buy a whole new TB, so if this does end up fixing the issue, then im going to look into trying to disassemble the TB and replacing any O-rings on the throttle blade shaft that could be leaking.

I will probably drop the tank this week when its not a full tank and take a look, 1) to make sure no lines are broken, but 2) i noticed today that my car used to suck in air when i would take the gas cap off after its been run, but the last 3 times now it has no longer done that. Which is kind of an odd thing to notice, but now im wondering where its getting it air from thats keeping it from doing that anymore.

was going to try the slipped gasket test but ran out of time, so im going to try that tomorrow before i go to work or when i get home and see if the cars trying to pull air from the lifter valley
 
Last edited: May 14, 2019

jrichker

StangNet's favorite TOOL
In Remembrance. Thank you for your contributions
Mar 10, 2000
27,512
2,813
234
Dublin GA
May 14, 2019
#33
  • May 14, 2019
  • #33
79MercCapri93 said:
@jrichker

I have been trying to scour the forums and using google searches but for some reason i cannot find previous posts you made and was hoping you might be able to retrieve a little easier then me.

Disregard this part jrichker, i searched using the forums rather than google and found it quite quickly. (I remember reading a post about lower intake slipped gasket and something created by I believe you and Tmoss for trying to do a test for this without pulling the entire intake to check.)

I was also looking for a post on how to test the 02's to insure they are actually being "heated" to rule out that possibility of a bad fusible link. Or can i just probe both sides of the wire in the harness around the fusible link with the key forward and see if there is 12vdc? Thank you for all of your help!
Click to expand...
The following are diagrams courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

Look at the diagram below; in the lower RH corner of the diagram is the power feed for the O2 Sensor heaters. It also includes information about the fuse link for the O2 sensor heaters. Look for 12 volts on that wire with the ignition switch in the Run position.
5.0 wiring diagram for Fuel Injectors, Sensors, and Actuators.



See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring; http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/ Everyone should bookmark this site.


TFI module wiring for 94-95 Mustang GT
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Mustang-94-95-IgnitionControlModule.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 94-95 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/94-95_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 91-93 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/91-93_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-90 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

5.0 wiring diagram for Fuel Injectors, Sensors, and Actuators
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

O2 sensor wiring harness
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangO2Harness.gif

Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg

HVAC vacuum diagram
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Mustang_AC_heat_vacuum_controls.gif

TFI module differences & pin out
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/TFI_5.0_comparison.gif

Fuse box layout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/MustangFuseBox.gif

Mustang 5.0 Lights and Radio schematic, by TMoss:
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxLights-Radio_diag.gif

87-92 power window wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustang87-92%20PowerWindowWiring.gif

93 power window wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustang93PowerWindows.gif

T5 Cutaway showing T5 internal parts
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/5_Speed_Cutaway_Illustrated.jpg

Visual comparison of the Ford Fuel Injectors, picture by TMoss:
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Ford_Injector_Guide.jpg

Convertible top motor wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustang88VertTopMotorCkt.gif

Engine mounted fuel injector harness
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangEngineHarness.gif

Location of the TPS, IAB, and the 10-pin connectors on a 5.0, picture by TMoss:
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/TPS_IAB_Pic.jpg

Starter circuit
http://forums.stangnet.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21328&d=1080916057

Alternator diagram for 94-95 Mustangs.
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Mustang-94-95-Alt.gif
 
7

79MercCapri93

Member
May 12, 2012
86
7
8
May 15, 2019
#34
  • May 15, 2019
  • #34
drove the car home last night and no lights on, it was glorious!

Today i went to work earlier then normal, stopped to get food and left about 20 minutes later, and probably about 3 minutes into the drive my check engine light came on again. Im going to pull codes when i get home, really hoping its the code 33 and not 41/91 anymore.
 
7

79MercCapri93

Member
May 12, 2012
86
7
8
May 15, 2019
#35
  • May 15, 2019
  • #35
79MercCapri93 said:
drove the car home last night and no lights on, it was glorious!

Today i went to work earlier then normal, stopped to get food and left about 20 minutes later, and probably about 3 minutes into the drive my check engine light came on again. Im going to pull codes when i get home, really hoping its the code 33 and not 41/91 anymore.
Click to expand...


Was able to jump out from work for a second to pull codes, came back with 33 (expected from the EGR delete), 41, 91, and 96 (which 96 may be from shutting off the car and just turning the key forward to right before on, while i coasted to the gate for work.
 
Last edited: May 15, 2019
7

79MercCapri93

Member
May 12, 2012
86
7
8
May 15, 2019
#36
  • May 15, 2019
  • #36
General karthief said:
This is a long shot, actually two.
seems to me that the lean condition is happening during the cruise mode (?) And maybe you need to inspect the vacuum line from the purge solenoid to the fuel tank. This may involve dropping the tank. Also on another stang I worked on had a problem with the air idle control valve hanging open, but this effected the idle on that car too.
I will also mention that a deteriorating lower intake gasket was a problem on my car, I have had my intake off soooo many times in the past that I could do it in my sleep, and likely the reason I call it the exxon valdez because the last time I didn't get the back rail sealed up good and it leaks from there.
Yeah, I was asleep on that one.
Click to expand...


im going to take a look at the fuel lines either tomorrow morning or this sunday after i get back from the car show out here in Ocean City. If i end up having to pull the intake im just going to put the explorer intake in that i have. No reason to pull the intake to put the same thing back in when i have another sitting here that ive been wanting to put in but have not had a chance to.
 
W

Window

Active Member
Feb 13, 2017
111
9
28
May 22, 2019
#37
  • May 22, 2019
  • #37
any happy ending here? genuinely curious because i chased the same issue for a while lol.
 
7

79MercCapri93

Member
May 12, 2012
86
7
8
May 22, 2019
#38
  • May 22, 2019
  • #38
Window said:
any happy ending here? genuinely curious because i chased the same issue for a while lol.
Click to expand...

Still troubleshooting! Just got back from Ocean City on Sunday and did not have time to mess with the car. I bought a new O2 harness that im going to put on, but am also going to drop the tank and check the fuel lines as well as taking a look at the IAC. Just been waiting to not have a full tank of gas in the car so I dont make a mess haha

I am also thinking of trying my stock MAF, or swap meters from my stock mass air and put the meter on my 94-95 and see if that corrects the issue as well
 
W

Window

Active Member
Feb 13, 2017
111
9
28
May 22, 2019
#39
  • May 22, 2019
  • #39
Do the harness 1st and dont forget to pin the extra plug that comes with it, it's different for each year or something like that. Careful cause u can damage the ecu if u forget it. My money is on the harness fixing it cause that's what worked for me. I had the same 41/91 only hitting the cel after like 10 mins of operation.
 
7

79MercCapri93

Member
May 12, 2012
86
7
8
May 22, 2019
#40
  • May 22, 2019
  • #40
Window said:
Do the harness 1st and dont forget to pin the extra plug that comes with it, it's different for each year or something like that. Careful cause u can damage the ecu if u forget it. My money is on the harness fixing it cause that's what worked for me. I had the same 41/91 only hitting the cel after like 10 mins of operation.
Click to expand...

I am hoping it fixes it, I reached out to LMR because the harness i purchased says its for 91-93 but it came with a plastic piece inside one of the pins on the main harness connection going to one of the 02's?
 
Prev
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
Next
First Prev 2 of 4 Next Last
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

M
Progress Thread 1993 Ford Mustang 5.0 convertible stock manual - ODB Codes shows running lean
  • mcalvo
  • Feb 11, 2025
  • Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech
  • 2
Replies
20
Views
1K
Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech Feb 22, 2025
AeroCoupe
2
Running very very rich
  • 2esoteric
  • Oct 31, 2025
  • Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech
Replies
4
Views
357
Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech Oct 31, 2025
Noobz347
Engine Ran my code reader and
  • Mindseye007
  • Aug 10, 2024
  • Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech
Replies
3
Views
619
Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech Aug 19, 2024
Mindseye007
Resolved 93 Mustang 5.0 - Cranks but does not start
  • dan50
  • Jul 18, 2026
  • Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech
Replies
6
Views
164
Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech Jul 18, 2026
dan50
Engine 1990 LX 5.0L EFI Mustang Fuel Management Problems - HELP!
  • 5.0LXStanger
  • May 25, 2025
  • Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech
  • 2 3
Replies
45
Views
2K
Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech Jul 11, 2025
5.0LXStanger
Share:
Bluesky Email Share Link
  • Mustang Forums
  • 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-
  • Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech
Menu
Log in

Register

  • Forums
  • What's new
  • Media
  • Resources
  • Contact
  • Sponsor
X

Privacy & Transparency

We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:

  • Personalized ads and content
  • Content measurement and audience insights

Do you accept cookies and these technologies?

X

Privacy & Transparency

We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:

  • Personalized ads and content
  • Content measurement and audience insights

Do you accept cookies and these technologies?