About to order heads...

BlownFiveLiter · Feb 8, 2006

Ok, the time has come to finally get myself a set of heads. I'm looking for the best bang for the buck, and can't decide between TWs or AFR 165s. I was thinking 185s because of the possibility of making more power with them, but they're only going on a stock Explorer short block, so I really don't have the need for 185cc runners, nor do I want to make larger reliefs in the pistons. Enlighten me oh ye 5.0 Gods, you're helping me with my decision here.
My combination will be as follows:
AFR 165 or TW heads
Typhoon intake
70mm TB
75mm Pro-M MAF (have one calibrated for 19's that I'll have recalibrated)
24 or 30lb injectors

And I'm also still up in the air on which cam to get. The TW stage 1 would obviously be good for their heads, but what about the AFRs? I'd like to do a custom cam, but that's fairly cost prohibitive at the moment, since I have many other parts yet to purchase (new lifters, roller rockers, pushrods, gaskets, injectors, etc.) What does everyone think? Any pros/cons to either one that will help me decide? Thanks!

final5-0 · Feb 8, 2006

I have been really pleased with my AFR's

My combo sounds a bit like what you are talking about

I really think you can build good power with the Edel & TFS heads as well.

Grady

94GTMOOSE · Feb 9, 2006

GO TW all the way, anyone i know taht went AFR was dissapointed in dyno numbers and performance. My brother has TW heads and loves them. WE talked to our friend and owner of OUtragous mustangs in jackson NJ dwayne Gutridge, and he says AFRs are hype and nothing else. For some reason everyone is on AFRs jock, and i can't understand. Just my Two cents and i am gonna get bashed for it. I may have a biased opinion becasue of Dwayne and my bro telling me that they are the best, but those are some people that i trust.

plus dawyne told me that T-dub head are one of the only heads you don't need to relief cut the pistons. sorry about spelling

BlownFiveLiter · Feb 9, 2006

94GTMOOSE said:
plus dawyne told me that T-dub head are one of the only heads you don't need to relief cut the pistons.

I have heard that even with the 2.02 intake valve, you don't need to flycut. I'm honestly leaning more toward the TWs, but there's been some very impressive numbers put down with both, and a very close price between the two doesn't help my decision. The biggest reason that I'm leaning toward the TWs is really because they've been around the longest. AFR played with the little boys and their bowties for a long time, and only within the past couple years noticed Ford. Trick Flow has had Ford heads since day one, and has had what, 15 years of R&D to go into them? That sounds as though I've already made up my mind, but I'm looking for proven combos that can make me sway toward one or the other.

fiveo'cobra · Feb 9, 2006

94GTMOOSE said:
GO TW all the way, anyone i know taht went AFR was dissapointed in dyno numbers and performance. My brother has TW heads and loves them. WE talked to our friend and owner of OUtragous mustangs in jackson NJ dwayne Gutridge, and he says AFRs are hype and nothing else. For some reason everyone is on AFRs jock, and i can't understand. Just my Two cents and i am gonna get bashed for it. I may have a biased opinion becasue of Dwayne and my bro telling me that they are the best, but those are some people that i trust.

plus dawyne told me that T-dub head are one of the only heads you don't need to relief cut the pistons. sorry about spelling

Well what your friends are telling you and what the actual facts are, are two different things. Its all in the combo. People that didn't make good numbers running AFR's may have chosen the wrong cam or intake for that setup, but AFR heads are awesome heads. Not saying trickflow heads are bad, but honestly if your friends say AFR heads are no good, they dont know much about engine building.

BlownFiveLiter · Feb 9, 2006

Ok, I did some searching on here, and through Google about the two, and I decided to go ahead and order the TFS heads. Cost me $1246.95 out the door for the TFS-51400004 heads (with the dual springs up to .600 lift and 10 degree locks). So now the countdown begins to get it done by Spring, when the nice weather makes me start missing it even more. I couldn't wait another minute either, my tax return got direct deposited yesterday, so it was burning a hole in my pocket. :SNSign:

wytstang · Feb 9, 2006

You couldn't go wrong with either one imho. I prefer TW heads because they have "meat" on them to port were as AFRs lack in that department.

Rootus · Feb 9, 2006

94GTMOOSE said:
GO TW all the way, anyone i know taht went AFR was dissapointed in dyno numbers and performance.

There are quite a number of people on this very forum who seem to be quite pleased with their AFR heads, so I think maybe you do not know lots of people . And do be careful racing dynos, they are not very aerodynamic .

My brother has TW heads and loves them. WE talked to our friend and owner of OUtragous mustangs in jackson NJ dwayne Gutridge, and he says AFRs are hype and nothing else.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. So far you have only restated others' opinions, and not much about yours. It would be nice to bring some kind of evidence to the thread to back up your comments, since after all this is a tech forum. Take for example the MM&FF tests a couple years ago. The AFR heads dominated in the 302/351 range, as I remember. More peak power, more power under the curve. Beyond any personal opinion I have, that is cold hard evidence suggesting AFR's are not hype. And if you want dyno numbers, I have those too.

For some reason everyone is on AFRs jock, and i can't understand. Just my Two cents and i am gonna get bashed for it. I may have a biased opinion becasue of Dwayne and my bro telling me that they are the best, but those are some people that i trust.

You might get bashed. But if anything, it would be for bringing bad information to the thread, no research of your own, and opinions of people not here to back them up .

plus dawyne told me that T-dub head are one of the only heads you don't need to relief cut the pistons. sorry about spelling

See, bad information . It is commonly accepted fact, regardless of which head you prefer, that the TW heads are more likely to cause piston to valve clearance problems because the angle of the valves is different from stock (meaning that the reliefs cut into the stock pistons are not quite in the right place to provide the same level of clearance for a TW head as for a stock design head). How many other heads have pistons specifically cut to fit them? If you are building an engine, it won't really matter either way since you will be selecting new pistons -- but if you are upgrading the top end with a stock shortblock, it is a concern.

Dave

Killercanary · Feb 9, 2006

Great post Dave!

I couldn't be happier with my little AFR's. 20mpg, 304rwhp/331rwtq, 12.0's at 112mph, only a 6000rpm shift point, NO bucking at any RPM, and all that from a nearly 3700lb car. It is all in the combination and not just the heads, but they are a VERY CRUTIAL component to that success.

TW and holley are the only heads with a 2.02" intake valve that do not need piston notching when used on a stock shortblock. Both are due to the location of the valve, the TW are rotated and the holleys are sunk way up into the chamber.

mytight95 · Feb 9, 2006

I have been doubting the Price tag on the AFR's for two years, i am to the point i want my car to make POWER, and after much research of my own i bought a set.

They arrived yesterday... i must say the craftmanship etc. on these things is amazing....I am completely satisfied with my purchase... and there is not much doubt as to whether or not they are gonna perform!!!

jason

Rootus · Feb 9, 2006

mytight95 said:
They arrived yesterday... i must say the craftmanship etc. on these things is amazing....I am completely satisfied with my purchase... and there is not much doubt as to whether or not they are gonna perform!!!

They are fine artwork, aren't they? The best part is when you take the E7's off and put them side by side with the new heads, and see the differences. It's a wonder the stock heads do as well as they do .

Dave

94GTMOOSE · Feb 10, 2006

notice i said

"Just my Two cents and i am gonna get bashed for it. "

i love this place, you can almost predict what kind of replies your going to get.

nmcgrawj · Feb 10, 2006

94GTMOOSE said:
notice i said

"Just my Two cents and i am gonna get bashed for it. "

i love this place, you can almost predict what kind of replies your going to get.

I mean come on....its not this place its ANYWHERE that is honest with stuff. Just look around on here...look at all the success AFR owners have. I guess all the guys are running 12's on "all hype" and nothing else. And you still post up a response like that? Your words of "they are all hype blah blah blah" is a statement of almost jealousy. The fact is THAT THEY WORK! Period. End of discussion. Are they the only option? Hell no. But you cant take anything away from them just because everyone runs them.

And for those "bad" combos...you cant put that on the heads. In my eyes, you are no better than the guys that run in here and say a 347 will burn oil and is less dependable than a 331 Facts that have no actual information. When you can find a situation or example where AFR HEADS WHERE THE REASON IT FAILED, then you might have room to stand on. But until then, you will get the responses you got. Besides, you asked for it. Thats how BAD INFORMATION gets spread. Just like the 347 issues.

mytight95 · Feb 10, 2006

I was offering a Biased opinion, as i have always said i wasn't gonna pay that much $ for a set of aluminum heads........ For me to backtrack on that is proof of their quality....

jason

VibrantRedGT · Feb 10, 2006

The AFR's come CNC'd already which is why the price is more than the TW's. Both are great aluminum heads.

Power is made through the combo not just one part. I don't remember ever reading a person being disappointed with AFR's. Especially upgrading from stock E7 heads.

Zero Signal · Feb 10, 2006

Just flip coin. They are both good heads.

Rootus · Feb 10, 2006

94GTMOOSE said:
i love this place, you can almost predict what kind of replies your going to get.

Ask yourself why it is predictable. Do you get bashed every time you post something? If the answer is yes, perhaps you should take a step back and look at what you are posting.

Dave

nmcgrawj · Feb 10, 2006

VibrantRedGT said:
Power is made through the combo not just one part. I don't remember ever reading a person being disappointed with AFR's. Especially upgrading from stock E7 heads.

A couple threads have popped up here and there...but the point is its not the cylinder heads fault. It wouldnt matter if the guy had afr 185's, TW's, canfields, darts, 165's, whatever head you want, whatever was wrong in the combo was gonna be wrong no matter what. I just dont get it....heads arent something that can be wrong. What, are you claiming they cant flow what they claim? Cause, if the springs are good, then what else is there to fail?

cobramanphil · Feb 10, 2006

I think either head is good. If it were me I would choose the head that would grow with the combo. I know that the TW's have extra material for porting so I went with them. I am sure the 165's can be ported as well. I am just not sure how much though(they are already cnd'd, correct?).

nmcgrawj · Feb 10, 2006

Well the other thing is this, with the size of the runners of the TW, while i forget how to calculate the details, it should be compared more closely to the 185's. Then you can get into porting the TW and that sort of thing so would think it can grow higher than the 165 could...and probably/hopefully as high as the ported 185 could. Anyone know any factual information on this kind of thing?

About to order heads...

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