afr/fri/edel vs. supercharged stock longblock

[dstang01]

just like the title says, which of these combos would you pick for a bone stock 5.0 stang? I think they are similarly priced (maybe a bit cheaper for the h/c/i) Here are the goals you are shooting for, dont just pick the one you like the best.. try to pick the one you think will hit the goals the best:

-STREET CAR, sees track a few times a year, but the rest of the time its a semi-daily driver

-therefore.. STREET MANNERS, the supercharged combo should be stock-like until you get on it, but i understand an FTI cam has stock-like manners too

-DECENT MILEAGE, no 12 mpg's here, 20 mpg mixed driving would be nice

-RELIABLE, i dont want to be blowing hg's every other week, or having to tweak and troubleshoot things here and there for months after the install

-TORQUEY powerband, nice street curve and average horsepower, lots of punch for the street, nice pull to about 6,000 rpm

-300 rwhp (at least)

 

[92GreenGT]

No matter what choice you go with..h/c/i or power adder. Get the car tuned and it will drive/idle/run/blah blah blah better than stock.

Bad fuel mileage, terrible idle, bucking at low speeds, CEL's, all that BS is caused by not having a tune. You cant go wrong either way, both are fun.

 

[SVT32VDOHC]

Yep...just as he said. Get a good tune and keep good fuel in it and you won't pop a head gasket.

I would go H/C/I for a street car. You will have power the second you mash the pedal.

Centrifical blower won't give you that type of power till you get up in the RPM's. It will build max boost after 4,000 depending on gear, and trans type. My Cobra doesn't run away from certain cars until I get half way through 2nd gear. If we only do a quick race through 1st...it looks as if I loose.

 

[92GreenGT]

No doubt on that about centrifis. The best thing you can do in a 5 liter centrifi setup is to get a 8" lower pulley and make sure the belt is tight. Put a bigger lower on and a bigger blower pulley if you have to get boost down where you want it. It will feel like night and day on how "fast" boost comes on. Plus the bigger lower and bigger blower pulley will help prevent belt slip.

 

[5spd GT]

This is easy for a higher mileage vehicle.

Do the h/c/i swap. No blown headgaskets and it gives you a brand new top-end that had lots of mileage.

Sounds good, runs good, and drives good.

I personally got 24 mpg once with my FTI combination (Performer intake/AFR 165/cam).

I averaged about 20-21 mpg. Power during the whole powerband.

 

[HankyGT]

I have the h/c/i I made the #'s in my sig. A dynojet reading would see like 320-330and so forth. Both will need supporting mods. heads were $1400, i bet I had another $500 in valvetrain/valvecovers that clear/gaskets/lifters. The u/l was like 450, TB was like 200, cam was like 150 (got it cheap).

So yeah, like $2600 I bet, not including injectors, MAS, pump, any exhaust.

Roughly a $500 difference than H/C/I vs. blower before supporting.

Worth it? Not really to me no. I've a bad taste for ford in my mouth after reading about LS1 modding and toying with my brothers.

It's going to take a blower PLUS my combo to match #s with a good H/C/I LS1 car.

My advise, is get some decent used heads, cam, and toss some new lifters in it, get the cheapest used intake you can get and throw as much boost at it as you can afford.

Or, go balls deep building a stroker.

Point in case, figure out your goals, pen EVERY last penny out on paper, and DO NOT listen to what anyone has to say about their untested opinions. There was a time for me when low 14s was fast and I'd be happy with a 13 sec car. That time is over.

Ask me how I feel about not wanting to even put my RWHP #'s in my sig on LS1tech so I won't hear more about how stangs suck.

 

[HankyGT]

.

 

[90mustangfan]

Im in the same boat choosing from a good H/C/I or blower stock long block....look at the facts for a average H/C/I will put between 285-300RWHP....a blower will easily make 300-330rwhp, not to mention if you added a aftercooler, a intercooler, pulley swaps, power pipes, gears, etc....so say your at 320rwhp with the blower, and you have some cash, get a intake manifold, roller rockers, IC, AC etc, stuff to make more HP on top of the blower.....youll have more room to grow by buying the blower first and then add h/c/i if your not pleased the hp numbers. so you have more potential to give you your fix slowly as cash comes in so you can buy part at a time.

Now go the H/C/I route...your stuck at 290rwhp with all the H/C/I, and full bolt-ons....Now what? theres no room to grow with cheap little bolt-ons as you could with the blower...once you have H/C/I, you only option is expensive parts like adding NOS, blower or stroker. which all are expensive and ass backwards of where you started. If you go H/c/i you need to decide first if your going to stroke it, then do the h/c/i, not the other way around or else youll be stripping the motor down again for the stroker kit, when that 290rhwp gets old.

Or you have h/c/I and you got tired of having 290rwhp, so you want to add a blower..well thats ass backwards again...now youll need to change to bigger injectors 24# wont work, a new MAF, A bigger fuel pump, add better clutch, have had the motor built to lower comp 8.5, add better parts to support the blower. which is backwards, your re-buying alot of parts that you already bought for just the h/c/i...so if your going to go that route....be sure to plan out what your doing so you buy the right size parts to match your plans.

Plans...well thats all they are, tomorrow may never come. so you build your 8.5 low comp blower motor h/c/i, and then you realize the funds for the blower may never come...no your really screwed with a weaker blower motor that you going to try and run N/A...youll be sad when you see the dyno results.

IMO, go with the blower now, youll still get stock gas mileage, plenty of power and room to grow as cash allows.

 

[HankyGT]

^^^ Pretty much what he said.

Though I think a little boost on an H/C/I goes a LONG way.

Depends on your final goals and what you want to spend.
Sure, you can build a low compression, boost built 347 and THEN go blower, which then you'll look right past the smaller setups and have like an 800RWHP monster.

Well, you're going to break the world, and really at a point, that becomes undrivable.

I've had boosted cars for like 6yrs now. They are finicky little pains in the arse.

I like the idea of keeping it n/a and simple. I love boost though. When you put dollars to dollars, ask yourself ' IS THIS THE CAR I REALLY WANT AND WISH TO KEEP'

and freaking mean it.

You will be heads over heels in accumulated cost, and I'm too far in to get out. I'll let you know this summer :/

 

[90mustangfan]

I think boost always has more room to grow than n/a...Hes talking a street car, nothing near a race car. So he will most likely pick out some-what of mild h/c/i combo, giving him around 285 rwhp if that...
for him the blower is his best bet.
and for me at that matter.
I just cant decide between Kenne bell or vortech...
If I put a 8" crank pulley how much sooner will boost build? will I get full boost by 3500?4000

Why not put a 9" crank and make the blower pulley 3.5 run like 10psi intercooled/power piped...I think that would make a good 350-370rwhp atleast

 

[5spd GT]

90mustangfan - Where are you seeing 330 rwhp on stock engines?

That is pushing some boost on a stock engine. Just as well, with that type of boost, you are looking at replacing the headgaskets/studs.

Well, geee, you could have thrown on h/c/i with that work. Or you can install a supercharger and do it twice

It is not about peak power, but the average power. This is where a h/c/i set-up has an advantage.

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

In a perfect world (or if you really have some money to spend and wanna do it "right") i'd go with an H/C/I first because it's only going to make the supercharger/turbo that much better. But, since it's not a perfect world and i myself don't have boat loads to spend on everything, i would probably just get a solid/low mileage stock long block and throw a turbo on it. You can make crazy power and still have a relatively reliable setup for cheap. Also consider that it's a lot easier to bolt a supercharger on the front of a stock engine than it is to rip the whole top end off and built it up, so if you're like me and don't have a garage to work in and time/space is a factor, that might sway your decision as well.

 

[dstang01]

Thanks for the replys keep 'em coming

so it seems like (in general terms) that...

street manners: toss up (depends on tune)

gas mileage: toss up (edge to supercharger maybe, but boost = premium fuel)

reliability: h/c/i (half the motor is also new after a swap)

peak power and torque: supercharger

average power and torque: h/c/i

ease of install: supercharger

cost: h/c/i

sounds like both will work pretty nicely, but im leaning more towards h/c/i for that "punch it and go" powerband, plus the simplicity of n/a.

one more question, how does a trickflow street heat h/c/i compare with an afr/fti/edelbrock setup? I hear afr 165s = smaller ports with equal flow to the trickflows = better low end. Maybe someone can help me compare the two setups.

thanks

 

[92GreenGT]

90mustangfan - Where are you seeing 330 rwhp on stock engines?

That is pushing some boost on a stock engine. Just as well, with that type of boost, you are looking at replacing the headgaskets/studs.

Well, geee, you could have thrown on h/c/i with that work. Or you can install a supercharger and do it twice

It is not about peak power, but the average power. This is where a h/c/i set-up has an advantage.

A stock engine with 8psi will make 330rwhp with ease. My car made 357rwhp/383trq with 10psi and extremely rich tune, I bet there was another 40rwhp left in it. Still had stock flow tubes and tailpipes with 2 1/4" weld in mufflers as well. Not sure if that really choked it up any, but it sure wasnt helping it.

That was back before the explorer intake as well, the car had Blower, fuel mods, mac shorty headers and a matching prochamber and weld in mufflers as complete mods.

I've saw turbo kits make close to 400rwhp with just 7psi on a stock longblock with a TFS intake.

 

[5spd GT]

I am having problems seeing that a STOCK engine that dynos 185 rwhp, adds 8 psi and gains 145 rwhp horsepower.

 

[stykthyn]

My buddy and I were just discussing this last night. he wants a street car that will put a guaranteed 300 to the wheels. I think a supercharger is the easiest quickest way to get there and then you can always add an h/c/i later.

 

[vikingpower]

HCI sounds better as well

 

[dstang01]

its such a tough call...

I was thinking.. why go through all the trouble to tear the engine down and add all these new parts when I could just bolt on a blower and make more power.. but then I look at it again.. im getting a brand new top end, plus i wont have to force air the stock inefficient parts.. then i look at it again.. do I really wanna break the factory seals for an h/c/i install... so many factors to consider

Lets keep it simple, what will be more fun on the street, and less of a pain in the ass?

also guys, what does an afr/fti/edelbrock h/c/i run cost wise? Probably under $3,000 new, yes? Now how about a vortech? a kenne bell?

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

its such a tough call...

I was thinking.. why go through all the trouble to tear the engine down and add all these new parts when I could just bolt on a blower and make more power.. but then I look at it again.. im getting a brand new top end, plus i wont have to force air the stock inefficient parts.. then i look at it again.. do I really wanna break the factory seals for an h/c/i install... so many factors to consider

Lets keep it simple, what will be more fun on the street, and less of a pain in the ass?

also guys, what does an afr/fti/edelbrock h/c/i run cost wise? Probably under $3,000 new, yes? Now how about a vortech? a kenne bell?

Hands down, all motor is waaay more fun if you ask me. Instant throttle response and no tuning hickups....the only difference is that at a certain level of power the drivability with all motor is going to suffer as compared to a supercharger. 1000hp all motor is going to take a nasty cam and is going to be real rowdy to drive on the street, whereas you can drive a 1000hp turbo car to get groceries as long as you don't mash the gas and get stupid with it.


Then again, consider this.....you build an HCI engine that makes 350hp at the wheels, then your neighbor bolts a supercharger on his stock engine and makes 350hp at the wheels. Both cars are gonna be a hoot to drive for sure, but 6 months later when you're desensitized to that power and you want more, you either need to get nastier HCI parts or spend the $$$ on a power adder, while your neighbor has a plethora of options...he can pully up and make more boost, or he can go at it part at a time and do maybe just the intake or just the heads or cam and go along as his budget allows. In the end you're both going to spend about the same money but if you spend it all on an HCI, your only other purchase is the big power adder purchase which is one lump sum. If you buy the most expensive single item first (a supercharger or turbo) then you can budget the rest later.

 

[jhonda]

Personally I am going to do this.
Get a HCI setup probley the trickflow street because Its more of a daily driver than it is track car, and I really like torque. Then if that is not enough power for me I will throw a kenny bell blower on top and have all the torque I want. If you don't have the money for a blower or turbo why not get a little shot of nitrous(100shot). This would put you at around 380-400whp and 450-500wtq with a wetshot.