Another subframe connector thread =P

Calypso5oh · Jan 6, 2012

First of all thank you everyone to responding to my question on headlight assembly installation . I have been surfing the net trying to find the answer to this question: Is it worth instaling full lengh subframe connectors instead of the standard lengh version? Most answers I see are "go for it" or "they are longer so they are better". I haven't been able to find a concrete answer as to if it's worth the extra money. My 93 notchback 5.0 is bone stock. I plan on doing a few minor bolt on's (better brakes, gt40 intake, exhaust) but that is about it. It's not going to be drag raced and I occasionaly do some canyon driving but nothing extreme. I figured the full lengh would probably be stiffer but is it overkill for my application??

Gearbanger 101 · Jan 6, 2012

I see no downside to the full length units. Their longer overall length offer more contact points for the installer to weld them to the sub frame of the vehicle. This means that the torsional force applied to them when the chassis flexes and twists under load and hard bumps will lessen the detrimental effects on both the sub frame and the sub frame connectors themselves. A larger surface area with more contact points means that instead of transferring all of the energy into a single area, it’s now spread over a larger real estate and can more effectively absorb and control the shock.

Set a Websters Dictionary on a single egg and it crushes under the weight. Set it on top of a dozen of them and that same mass is now split 12-ways handles the load.

Same principal.

VibrantRedGT · Jan 6, 2012

My opinion would be that the regular sized sub frames will stiffen it up plenty for what you're doing. Springs, upper / lower control arms, etc. should make the sub frames shine. If there isn't a too large of a gap between the price then just go for the bigger ones.

Rick 91GT · Jan 6, 2012

The price is about the same Id go full length, or if you want the best...through floor. Depends what your plans are with the car.

DavidEwers · Jan 6, 2012

go with the standard size in fact I would even say go with the boltons and later on them get them welded.

NIKwoaC · Jan 6, 2012

My standard length MM SFCs make the car so rigid, I can put 3 jack stands under the car at each corner, and the 4th corner won't sag. I noticed that one day when I was working on the suspension and saw that one of my stands had about a 1/4" gap... It wasn't actually touching the car, haha.

That said, if the price isn't that much different, I don't see any harm in going with full lengths, other than maybe a slight weight difference.

DavidEwers said:
go with the standard size in fact I would even say go with the boltons and later on them get them welded.

I would say don't waste time with bolt-ons. Either buy a weld-in set and have them welded in or don't do them at all. IMO, it's really one of those things that if you're going to do it half-ass, what's the point?

Bullitt347 · Jan 7, 2012

NikwoaC said:
My standard length MM SFCs make the car so rigid, I can put 3 jack stands under the car at each corner, and the 4th corner won't sag. I noticed that one day when I was working on the suspension and saw that one of my stands had about a 1/4" gap... It wasn't actually touching the car, haha.

That said, if the price isn't that much different, I don't see any harm in going with full lengths, other than maybe a slight weight difference.

I would say don't waste time with bolt-ons. Either buy a weld-in set and have them welded in or don't do them at all. IMO, it's really one of those things that if you're going to do it half-ass, what's the point?

+1

Shakerhood · Jan 9, 2012

I agree, would only use weld in SFCs.

castine917 · Jan 10, 2012

Going with full length instead of "regular/short" means if you decide later to be more aggressive you will already have all the work done and not have to go back to do it a second time.

jdb3rd · Jan 10, 2012

I have a question to add to this what are your opinions on the suspension being loaded or not when welding in subframe connectors? I've done it both ways and didn't notice a difference in the results.

91TwighlightGT · Jan 10, 2012

It should be loaded on the suspension for best results. Perhaps if it was pretty close you wouldn't notice in street driving, but if you road race or Autocross your car you may notice some strange handling characteristics at the limit and suspension tuning issues.

Gearbanger 101 · Jan 10, 2012

The suspension MUST be loaded not so much for changes in driving characteristics after the fact, but because the body panels won't line up correctly otherwise. These cars are about as rigid as a string of dry spaghetti. I've seen body sag several inches and doors not open, or shut properly with a car lifted otherwise. At the very least, drive the front end up onto ramps and set jack stands under the rear axle when taking it up off the ground. If you don't, you're asking for problems.

srtthis · Jan 10, 2012

if your worried about cost between full length and an short bars. id pick up a set of UPR's think i paid like 75 bucks or something like that for mine on sale

NIKwoaC · Jan 10, 2012

91TwighlightGT said:
It should be loaded on the suspension for best results. Perhaps if it was pretty close you wouldn't notice in street driving, but if you road race or Autocross your car you may notice some strange handling characteristics at the limit and suspension tuning issues.

Hmmm... Don't know that I believe that.

Gearbanger 101 said:
The suspension MUST be loaded not so much for changes in driving characteristics after the fact, but because the body panels won't line up correctly otherwise. These cars are about as rigid as a string of dry spaghetti. I've seen body sag several inches and doors not open, or shut properly with a car lifted otherwise. At the very least, drive the front end up onto ramps and set jack stands under the rear axle when taking it up off the ground. If you don't, you're asking for problems.

That's more the explanation that I would be on board with. Though I'll say that the guy who welded mine in was a race car builder and owned a collision repair shop and he insisted he put it on his chassis lift to do it. He said with his lift, that would be the straightest the car would be. I've never had any problems since

ID89GT · Jan 10, 2012

They're cheap enough, I would just buy the full lengths. I think the MM ones are like 150.. I need to buy some for mine, but I don't know where I could take it to to have them installed

ReefBlueHatch · Jan 10, 2012

I guess I'm the only odd ball, but really didn't notice any difference when I had SFC's installed

NIKwoaC · Jan 10, 2012

ReefBlueHatch said:
I guess I'm the only odd ball, but really didn't notice any difference when I had SFC's installed

Yea, most people don't until they put some power to it and the windshield cracks because the body twists like a pretzel, haha. I had a buddy that happened to.

91TwighlightGT · Jan 10, 2012

NikwoaC said:
Hmmm... Don't know that I believe that.

That's more the explanation that I would be on board with. Though I'll say that the guy who welded mine in was a race car builder and owned a collision repair shop and he insisted he put it on his chassis lift to do it. He said with his lift, that would be the straightest the car would be. I've never had any problems since

You would be surprised what a small amount of pre-load in a chassis can do to handling. Again, I am not saying that your average driver on the street would notice a difference, but if you are going for the last tenth, it could cause you an issue.

NIKwoaC · Jan 11, 2012

91TwighlightGT said:
You would be surprised what a small amount of pre-load in a chassis can do to handling. Again, I am not saying that your average driver on the street would notice a difference, but if you are going for the last tenth, it could cause you an issue.

The thing is you're preloading the unibody, not the suspension. The suspension (control arms, shocks, springs, etc) and its geometry would remain almost completely unaffected. So if you fubar a sfc install, I can see where your doors might have trouble closing, but I have serious doubts that it would produce any sort of noticeable effect in handling,

5.0 Coupe · Jan 12, 2012

Calypso5oh said:
First of all thank you everyone to responding to my question on headlight assembly installation . I have been surfing the net trying to find the answer to this question: Is it worth instaling full lengh subframe connectors instead of the standard lengh version? Most answers I see are "go for it" or "they are longer so they are better". I haven't been able to find a concrete answer as to if it's worth the extra money. My 93 notchback 5.0 is bone stock. I plan on doing a few minor bolt on's (better brakes, gt40 intake, exhaust) but that is about it. It's not going to be drag raced and I occasionaly do some canyon driving but nothing extreme. I figured the full lengh would probably be stiffer but is it overkill for my application??

I have had subframe connectors installed several times, both the standard size and full length. Full length is the best way to go, mainly because of the frame rails up front. Full length uses all of the frame rails, standard does not, which leaves serveral inchs of Stock Frame Rail.
The problem is when you go to jack up the car, which I do a lot, the normal place you place jack stands or jack up the car is right where the stock frame rails are located and after may uses of jack stands and lifts, those stock frame rails get really beat up.
If you have full length, you wont have this issue, because the full length covers the whole Frame rail, plus full length rails look better...

Another subframe connector thread =P

Calypso5oh

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Gearbanger 101

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VibrantRedGT

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Rick 91GT

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DavidEwers

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NIKwoaC

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Bullitt347

I have been doing it wrong this whole time

Shakerhood

castine917

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jdb3rd

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91TwighlightGT

Gearbanger 101

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srtthis

the guy doing it does every local racers rear end

NIKwoaC

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ID89GT

ReefBlueHatch

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NIKwoaC

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91TwighlightGT

NIKwoaC

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5.0 Coupe

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Another subframe connector thread =P

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I have been doing it wrong this whole time

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the guy doing it does every local racers rear end

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