Anyone with problems doing the 3G swap with stock wiring?

[smokin91']

Yes 91's do kick ass.

Mine was from a production ford vehicle, however I do not know which one it came on. I remember someone telling me they came on the Ford Vans.

I suppose if it ever did go south i could just have it rebuilt. Since i only put like 5000km a year on the car and it doesnt get driven in the rain i see it lasting a long time. knock on wood.

 

[$uperstang]

What you guys are saying is that you can simply run the 4G wire and leave the other wires disconnected with the exception of the white pigtail wire? I have installed the 3g and it is a 170amp version using a 4g power wire with 150 amp inline fuse and a new ground wire but used spade connectors to connect the 2 orange black wires also to the back of the alternator like the directions said? Put about 2,000 miles on it so far and there are no problems. I am constantly under the hood cleaning and looking at things and all seems well?

 

[Jaswir]

What you guys are saying is that you can simply run the 4G wire and leave the other wires disconnected with the exception of the white pigtail wire? I have installed the 3g and it is a 170amp version using a 4g power wire with 150 amp inline fuse and a new ground wire but used spade connectors to connect the 2 orange black wires also to the back of the alternator like the directions said? Put about 2,000 miles on it so far and there are no problems. I am constantly under the hood cleaning and looking at things and all seems well?

yep thats the same way i have mine... i didnt hook back up the other power wires... you can it wouldnt hurt but there is no need

 

[jrichker]

Wires, wires, wires…

Here is the reasoning behind using only a single 4 gauge fused power feed to the alternator. If you use the two 10 gauge black/orange wires in addition to the 4 gauge wire, you have two fused power feed paths. The total current capacity of the wiring is the sum of the fused paths. The 4 gauge path is fused for 125 amps, and the two 10 gages wires are fused for 60 amps. That is a total of 185 amps, which exceeds the capacity of the alternator. Overload can occur without the fuses blowing, damaging the alternator.

The worst case scenario is that the alternator develops an internal short to ground resulting in a catastrophic failure. The initial short circuit surge current is limited by the resistance of the wiring. The current in a parallel circuit divides up according to the resistance of the branches. If the 4 gauge fuse opens up first, the two 10 gauge black/orange wires will be carrying the short circuit surge current. Depending on the time lag of the fuse links, they may open up before a fire starts or they may not.

 

[$uperstang]

ok cool next spring I will just remove the two black orange wires from the alternator and tape them up and secure them. Thanks, I guess an added safety precaution is always good I just assumed I would follow the directions

 

[smokin91']

Why not just remove them now, It only takes a minute then you dont have to worry about forgetting about it in the spring. You dont ever want an underhood fire, melted wiring harnesses are a nightmare that will make you want to throw your car in the trash!

 

[DucatiRdr]

Boy, this thread arrived just in time. As I type my car is sitting with the alternator in the trunk waiting for me to trim the mounting bracket. I was going to connect the black/orange wires and the 4ga wire per the PA Performance instructions, but now I will follow the sage advice on this thread and use only the 4ga wire and avoid some problems. Thanks!!!

 

[HISSIN50]

As folks read the various articles around the internet, even a layman like me (JRichker's little toe is smarter than I am) can find either faults in the articles or things that simply don't make sense.

 

[Shakerhood]

The stock wires are rated for about 60 amps of continuous current. A 3G utilized under a full electrical load will make those wires poop themselves. And the stock fusible links are not guaranteed to melt before the wires themselves catch on fire. Not good.

The solution is to run a new charge cable - most use 4 AWG. And because this is ample, there's no need to keep the stock wires connected at the alternator side - they'd be redundant and also a point of risk.

If not wanting to make a charge cable, see Fordfuelinjection's selection of cable and modified regulator plugs (04 Sleeper can provide first hand experience about using those products).

To make your own cable, Jrichker has a parts list that works very well. Anthony (Glowstang) has also posted detailed info about making a charge cable (he might have done his with all locally sourced parts, if that helps).

If you want a short but very accurate synopsis of the retrofit, See Jrichker's:

http://forums.stangnet.com/showpost.php?p=5241158&postcount=9

Of course, there are a zillion write-ups out there - all tailored a little bit for personal preference. Joe really hit things nicely and in a real understandable way, I think.

Good luck.

I thought you still needed a large Cable even if you used the Fordfuelinjection harness?

 

[HISSIN50]

I thought you still needed a large Cable even if you used the Fordfuelinjection harness?

I'm sorry if my post was ambiguous (it reads ok to me but I'm a nutball). FFI has charge cables and regulator plugs here. You're absolutely correct - one definitely needs a new charge cable of some fashion (premade, self-made, etc).

 

[MikeC]

How often does a stock Mustang pull greater than 60 amps? I don't have or ever want a giant stereo, or any other power eating accessory, is it still worth while to upgrade to this alternator?
I see the need to upgrade the wiring if you use a high ouput alternator becasue it has the potential to put out 130 amps, but really how often will a stock Mustang use that much power?

 

[HISSIN50]

How often does a stock Mustang pull greater than 60 amps? I don't have or ever want a giant stereo, or any other power eating accessory, is it still worth while to upgrade to this alternator?
I see the need to upgrade the wiring if you use a high ouput alternator becasue it has the potential to put out 130 amps, but really how often will a stock Mustang use that much power?

Jrichker had done some number crunching here. About 3/4 of the way down the post, he shows 74 amps.

If your voltmeter ever drops off, the 3G would likely help. I'd do one even if a 2G is sufficient (quicker recharging if you dont start/drive the car super often, etc). I also enjoy things like having additional headlight wattage from being at near 14 volts instead of 12ish.

I was quite happy with my 2G but once I did the 3G, I was really glad I did it (the '88 has stock accessories, with the headlights, fogs and the second fan setting being about all that's normally on at night - perhaps comparable to the accessory draw you see?). Even with that relatively low draw, the upgrade was noticable.

Not sure if that helps at all.

 

[smokin91']

How often does a stock Mustang pull greater than 60 amps? I don't have or ever want a giant stereo, or any other power eating accessory, is it still worth while to upgrade to this alternator?
I see the need to upgrade the wiring if you use a high ouput alternator becasue it has the potential to put out 130 amps, but really how often will a stock Mustang use that much power?

If your driving in the rain with your lights/fogs/windshield wipers/heater/defroster on your stock alternator isnt keeping up. When your idleing in traffic your alterntor isnt putting out 14.4v. Even if you dont need the amperage, upgrade anyways because that stock alternator looks like a fossil when you pop the hood. It belongs in a museum.

 

[roadrunner19va]

Stock Wiring?

Man this thread really took off. I am glad other people are learning from this thread like I have. Thanks for all of the great info and knowledge all of you guys share. :SNSign:

 

[postalbunny]

How often does a stock Mustang pull greater than 60 amps? I don't have or ever want a giant stereo, or any other power eating accessory, is it still worth while to upgrade to this alternator?
I see the need to upgrade the wiring if you use a high ouput alternator becasue it has the potential to put out 130 amps, but really how often will a stock Mustang use that much power?

Fog lights + lights + stock stereo = less than 13 volts at idle (725rpm), battery is being drained. Good enough reason for me to upgrade to a 130a, even if it's only when your stock one blows. Why put a weak one back in.

 

[MikeC]

Even if you dont need the amperage, upgrade anyways because that stock alternator looks like a fossil when you pop the hood. It belongs in a museum.

I may eventually upgrade for the higher output, but I doubt I will upgrade just to make the alternator look better.

 

[Shakerhood]

How often does a stock Mustang pull greater than 60 amps? I don't have or ever want a giant stereo, or any other power eating accessory, is it still worth while to upgrade to this alternator?
I see the need to upgrade the wiring if you use a high ouput alternator becasue it has the potential to put out 130 amps, but really how often will a stock Mustang use that much power?

Just hit your Power Window Button and watch your Volt Gauge Drop, mine even dropped while going 60 MPH on the Highway, so that pretty much sums up that the stocker cant keep up with the car.

 

[DucatiRdr]

One last question!

I have my 3G mounted with new belt, 4Ga wire connected and run neatly in front of the radiator with the tail end connected to the thing behind the coil (the actual name evades me). What I want to run by you guys is the inline fuse box. That thing is a bitch to hide. There isn't enough room under the battery tray, no room behind the battery, and the only other place is hanging under the bundle of wires grouped at the coil.

What I want to do is remove the box and connect the two ends of the 4ga wire at the fuse with short brass bolts. The whole connection covered with shrink wrap tubing, a few wraps of electrical tape then conduit to keep vibrations from causing problems. This will enable me to bury the wire under the battery box making the whole installation neat and virtually invisible. Any potential problems with this? If the fuse blows will it heat up and burn anything?

 

[HISSIN50]

One last question!

I have my 3G mounted with new belt, 4Ga wire connected and run neatly in front of the radiator with the tail end connected to the thing behind the coil (the actual name evades me). What I want to run by you guys is the inline fuse box. That thing is a bitch to hide. There isn't enough room under the battery tray, no room behind the battery, and the only other place is hanging under the bundle of wires grouped at the coil.

What I want to do is remove the box and connect the two ends of the 4ga wire at the fuse with short brass bolts. The whole connection covered with shrink wrap tubing, a few wraps of electrical tape then conduit to keep vibrations from causing problems. This will enable me to bury the wire under the battery box making the whole installation neat and virtually invisible. Any potential problems with this? If the fuse blows will it heat up and burn anything?

The one concern I might have is that under the battery is kind of a nasty environment (unless you have a gel battery). Remember, if something came loose with your connection, you could have battery current grounding out.

I think Anthony (Glowstang) had a nice little fuse-holder (smaller than the one I used at least - mine was a large ANL holder). Or for a trick set-up, you could use a high-current relay (the marine application ones are nice for harsh NVH environments).

Good luck.

 

[DucatiRdr]

The one concern I might have is that under the battery is kind of a nasty environment (unless you have a gel battery). Remember, if something came loose with your connection, you could have battery current grounding out.

I thought about that... Actually there is already a negative battery cable running under there. No junctions of course, but besides that, the frame rail was pretty clean. I was figuring to wrap the fuse tightly to make sure it was vibration isolated as well as fairly water tight.

Do you think this is a **bad** idea, or just an untested one?