big block swap

[Sage427]

Hello to everyone, i'm new here. I ran across the site searching on the web, and thought it would be a great place to get stang info. I tried searching the forum for a similar question that i'm about to ask, but I couldn't find anything! So if this question has already been address please link it to me.

Here is what I want to do. I am going to be getting a newer model Stang around 99-2002 with probably a V6. The car will serve as a work/travel vehicle and later, a project car. When the engine gives out and i'm DONE WITH the V6/V8, I intend on ripping out the engine/tranny and dropping in a big block CJ 428. I know I will most likely need different motor mounts, probably need to check the cross member as well, radiator and fan, pulleys, drivetrain, you know the drill.

My main question is, i'd like to convert the big block into fuel injection using some kind of EFI kit (perhaps something like this http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/5228/) and somehow convert the computer and sensors of the Mustang to "understand" the big block if possible. I don't know of any kind of 3rd party chip maker that would do that, or if I would need a heavily modded wiring harness with special hookups with new senors and fuses?? I have heard of BB's being dropped in the Fox bodies but not in the 99+ models.

If not, then would it be easier in terms of technical issues to just use a carbed intake and retard some of the sensors that would not be needed as to say for fuel injection? My main goal is just all out street thumping big block torque with smooth idle.

 

[tangerine]

If you are going to do that I will tell you from first hand experience. The computer will have to be a F.A.S.T computer with gm sensors. they work the best. You will have to modify the k-member and the trans. cross member. The 4.6 is actually widder than most big blocks. you will have to call kooks and get a set of custom headers made. if you are going to do this swap you are looking into big money and you will more than likely sacrifice all daily driveability.

 

[Sage427]

if you are going to do this swap you are looking into big money and you will more than likely sacrifice all daily driveability.

Nah, it just depends on what you consider "big money is." and as far as daily driving is concerned, that depends on what cam and intake you put on it. I've got an 81 Stingray modded with a BB Tall deck 427, 310cam, Weiand Team G manifold, no sacrifices here. But i'm swapping that out next week for a BB 468. I just want to take a new Stang and give it Classic power is all. Personal taste I guess you call it, and just wanting to attempt it is all.

 

[RedGTvert]

Forget the 428. Waste of time. Just go with a stroked 351 to 393 or 408.

Converting a 428 to Fuel Injection will be costly as hell, and you won't see as much power as you will with a stroke 351.

If you want to convert to a Big Block, then save your money for a 427 cammer and see 600+rwhp N/A.

 

[Sage427]

Forget the 428. Waste of time. Just go with a stroked 351 to 393 or 408.

Converting a 428 to Fuel Injection will be costly as hell, and you won't see as much power as you will with a stroke 351.

If you want to convert to a Big Block, then save your money for a 427 cammer and see 600+rwhp N/A.

Whats up RedGTvert,

As for power of a 428, it will come in the Heads, Cam, and Intake (i will be using aftermarket components). Honestly I am also looking into the 429. It can be stroked and bored to a 460 if i'm correct (please check me on that, I think the block is the same).

Yes, its gotta be a big block. You are right, it would be easy to drop a 4.6, 5.0, or 5.8 in. But, how many newer model Stangs do ever see driving around with big blocks in them eh? I guess I just like uniqueness. IMO you can't beat the torque of a BB. However, i'm sure there are people here who beg to differ, but thats just me.

As far as fuel injection, I may end up going with carb and intake b/c I can't find any info on converting them with the newer Stangs.

 

[Avenger]

If you want to convert to a Big Block, then save your money for a 427 cammer and see 600+rwhp N/A.

Are these engines available anywhere nowadays ?

Sage, your thread kinda got me thinking about all the 428CJ "spare" shortblocks laying around in the basement. Guess I'll never do it but it would definitely be cool as hell !

 

[SilverSteed]

If you want performance, you are much better off goiing with a stroked 351. If you want old school and a good conversation piece, go with the big block. A 460 is a 427 with a 428 crank, my dad has one in his Shelby Cobra Replica. It was built by a professional engine builder, that builds his race motors and it puts down 530hp at the crank. The motor is very heavy and is pretty much a boat anchor compared to a 351. If you need any more info on the big blocks let me know.

Andy

 

[Sage427]

Are these engines available anywhere nowadays ?

Sage, your thread kinda got me thinking about all the 428CJ "spare" shortblocks laying around in the basement. Guess I'll never do it but it would definitely be cool as hell !

Avenger,

LOL you can start by selling me one of those shortblocks of yours! hehe. Would it NOT be cool as hell???? Really though! You know the more I think about it computers in cars aren't all that great (I would know I i'm an A+ cert. PC repair tech, and cert. CISCO Networking Tech) I mean sure computers are nice, handy, efficient, fun to play on, and sometimes pure trouble. But when it comes to cars+computer= sooner or later TROUBLE! Say for ex. sensors and such. Thats why if I couldn't use an EFI system, I think it would be awesome to retain the comfort and luxury of the newer model Stangs, and when your done with its orginial engine, stuff a carbed BB in.

BTW. If I did decide to go with a carb'd intake setup, how could I retard the fuses that I would not need?

Avenger if you hear or read up on anything else keep me informed!

 

[Sage427]

If you want performance, you are much better off goiing with a stroked 351. If you want old school and a good conversation piece, go with the big block. A 460 is a 427 with a 428 crank, my dad has one in his Shelby Cobra Replica. It was built by a professional engine builder, that builds his race motors and it puts down 530hp at the crank. The motor is very heavy and is pretty much a boat anchor compared to a 351. If you need any more info on the big blocks let me know.

Andy

Sup SilverSteep?

Shelby Cobra? How Awesome IMO, those are the TRUE Cobras. Thanks on the 460 info. To be honest i've almost made up my mind to go carb'd on the project. Probably my only concern now is the wiring and sensors of the 99+ models. When I took the small block out of my 81 Stinger and dropped the BB in it, there was no computer frustrations at all. For one thing 81 was the last year of the Q-jets, so there was no real computerized parts on it. Would I need to get a special wiring harness? I plan on using my MSD 6TN ignition system if it will work. I also need to consider the method of fuel delivery, such as how it should be setup consider how it is delivered on the new stangs, and what should be modified for the carb. any suggestions, ideas, or thoughts I'd appreciate any!!! Thanks

 

[SilverSteed]

His motor is a 427 Side Oiler which is what motor Shelby actually put in the cars. I can get you the exact specs of everything if you want it. I know he is running a MSD ignition, but i dont know which one. The tranny is a richmond 5 speed. He is having lots of trouble with fouling plugs, because he has too much cam. I think your best bet for this project might be to just strip off all of the stock wiring for things such as ignition and fuel and start over in what ever direction you want to go. It will be a TON of work to do this...but it would be a really awesome project. Keep us updated.

Andy

 

[prsrizdgt]

Just due to parts accessibility and the rest, I wanted to go with a 460 - C6 - 9". I didn't do alot of research, but what stopped me was the uni-body construction of the car. I felt it wouldn't hold up. Then again, I have seen some amazing numbers in some people's sig which suggest otherwise.

 

[Sage427]

what stopped me was the uni-body construction of the car. I felt it wouldn't hold up.

hey prsrizdgt,

I done a quick look up on the net, and found this http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/tech/0302MMFF_SlammedPt1/ I do plan on upgrading the suspension later on. As far as drag racing or stress on the frame from hard cornering, I won't be doing much of that. I plan on just building a killer street cruiser with decent amount of torque. Ex: Edelbrock Performer RPM Air-Gap manifold with matching cam profile and probably the heads they offer as well (any other suggestions for good street setups?)

I would probably need to change out the stock springs that would accommodate for the extra weight of the block.

 

[nickthegenius]

Just due to parts accessibility and the rest, I wanted to go with a 460 - C6 - 9". I didn't do alot of research, but what stopped me was the uni-body construction of the car. I felt it wouldn't hold up. Then again, I have seen some amazing numbers in some people's sig which suggest otherwise.

ALL of the '64-'72 Mopar Hemi cars, whether it was a A, B or E body, were all uni-body. Most of them have held up a-ok.

 

[Sage427]

ALL of the '64-'72 Mopar Hemi cars, whether it was a A, B or E body, were all uni-body. Most of them have held up a-ok.

thanks for the info nickthegenius,

I was wondering about that as well. To be honest I think I would be more concerned with rear end than anything. I also do plan on switching that out later.

 

[tangerine]

I am taking it you aren't going to make a daily driver out of this. If you are you must be real old school to take a 20+ mpg vehicle and put a heavy 5- mpg bb in it. I have never seen a carbed motor make over 450hp that you can drive every day. I know each is to its own but by the time you get finished dropping a bb, c6 trans and built the rearend to hold that amount of torque you could have dropped a 4.6 with a blower in there and have money left over. and also you would have to put heavier springs in the front because the weigh of the bb is going to weigh it down. Just me I see a lot of negative in this but you wallet not mine just giving you my side.

 

[kurst]

I am taking it you aren't going to make a daily driver out of this. If you are you must be real old school to take a 20+ mpg vehicle and put a heavy 5- mpg bb in it. I have never seen a carbed motor make over 450hp that you can drive every day. I know each is to its own but by the time you get finished dropping a bb, c6 trans and built the rearend to hold that amount of torque you could have dropped a 4.6 with a blower in there and have money left over. and also you would have to put heavier springs in the front because the weigh of the bb is going to weigh it down. Just me I see a lot of negative in this but you wallet not mine just giving you my side.

I'm quite sure we have established this is not a PRACTICAL project. Without people who are willing to put aside practicality however, the world wouldnt be any fun.

 

[Sage427]

I am taking it you aren't going to make a daily driver out of this. If you are you must be real old school to take a 20+ mpg vehicle and put a heavy 5- mpg bb in it. I have never seen a carbed motor make over 450hp that you can drive every day. I know each is to its own but by the time you get finished dropping a bb, c6 trans and built the rearend to hold that amount of torque you could have dropped a 4.6 with a blower in there and have money left over. and also you would have to put heavier springs in the front because the weigh of the bb is going to weigh it down. Just me I see a lot of negative in this but you wallet not mine just giving you my side.

Tangerine,

Daily driving is based upon your selection of CAM AND INTAKE! As i stated earlier I have an 81 Vette converted to a BB with a single plane manifold and 310 cam and THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH DAILY DRIVING. It makes about 550HP, though i'm switching it out next week for a 468CI with 292 cam and Performer RPM intake, 850 king demon carb. As far as the front end, the BB did not weigh it down that much at all, and i'm using the STOCK springs (and a stingray vette is alot lighter than a newer stang)

As for price a BRAND NEW 4.6L Cobra is about $6000+ a Paxton supercharger which is about $2500= $8500. I can build a BB with more power cheaper than that. But as a reminder this is only going to be a street vehicle with little top end which means I will retain "driveability." As far as people begging me to stay with a small block i think it is humorous, every body has a small block lol. I'm doing this to try something different.

 

[tangerine]

yeah I see it isn't a practical. I am even in the process of putting a mitsubishi starion turbo motor in an 88 dodge ram 50. I am seeing where you are going with this I was just wondering if you was wanting the streetability of it.

 

[Sage427]

I'm quite sure we have established this is not a PRACTICAL project. Without people who are willing to put aside practicality however, the world wouldnt be any fun.

Kurst! lol AMEN Bro!

 

[PG98GT]

How about putting a truck V-10 in it? It's based on the 5.4L hence the taller decklid and it comes out to nearly a 427. It's not really that bad a swap, the truck V-10 has mulitple motor mount places on the block and it will fit nicely between the shock towers. Enough have done it that there are parts around now. Just be prepared to get a much taller hood. Gobs of torque, to say the least.