Cam Installation Questions...

Strype · Mar 8, 2009

1993 LX

Doing an HCI swap. GT40X Aluminum Heads/B cam. Stock bottom end with 66,000 miles.

I've had one person tell me to check the forward and aft placement of the cam and to degree it. I've been told that the distributor will take the slack out of the cam and not to mess with forward and aft. I've been told to simply put in the cam at 0 degrees because I'm not messing with the crank and that degreeing the cam can cause valve clearance problems. I've been told to change the "thrust plate" and bolts. I've been told not to hit the cam bearings...

Who's right?

Do I just change the cam out and set it back to 0 and forget it? The guy that told me that builds motors all the time for chevy's and used to own a mechanic shop and race. He told me just set it at 0 and put it in.

93 LX · Mar 8, 2009

Get it degreed. Cams 0 vary and greatly. Also the fore and aft should be checked as well. ITs not hard and its well worth the effort. Remember this too, Chevys are easy to build. most everything as been done but with Fords it takes brains and skill. Do it right.

1987stangman · Mar 8, 2009

93 LX said:
Get it degreed. Cams 0 vary and greatly. Also the fore and aft should be checked as well. ITs not hard and its well worth the effort. Remember this too, Chevys are easy to build. most everything as been done but with Fords it takes brains and skill. Do it right.

Since the B cam is a direct stock replacement most people just set it straight up but degreeing it would be an extra step. After I built my engine I used the stock H.O cam and then a few weeks later decided to install a E303 cam. I went on someone elses advice and used an adjustable timing chain and gear set and gave the cam 4 degrees advance, been driving the car ever since.

I am sure everyone has their way of doing it and alot of people Psychoanalyze it too but it's not that big of a deal

347HO · Mar 8, 2009

Strype said:
1993 LX
I've had one person tell me to check the forward and aft placement of the cam and to degree it.

You definitely want to check your camshaft endplay.
Too much or none will either take out your distributor gear or drive gear on the camshaft.
You will be very happy spending the effort and time degreeing in the cam. I can almost guarantee you it will be out by +/- 3 to 6*.
You have to understand the camshaft is not directly connected to the crank. You're dealing with tolerances in the camshaft bore and crankshaft bore centerlines, gears, chain and machining on the lobes.

Strype said:
1993 LX
I've been told that the distributor will take the slack out of the cam and not to mess with forward and aft.

This is ignorant advice given to you.

Strype said:
1993 LX
I've been told to simply put in the cam at 0 degrees because I'm not messing with the crank and that degreeing the cam can cause valve clearance problems.

You should install the cam at 0*. The only way to do this is to degree it in. Relying on the zero mark on the cam gear and crank gear and disregarding the tolerances of everything else is ignorant.
I always suggest checking for PTV. Zeroing the camshaft is a good starting point, and if you encounter PTV issues due to moving the camshaft +/- 4 or 6 degrees... you had issues before you even started.

Strype said:
1993 LX
I've been told to change the "thrust plate" and bolts. I've been told not to hit the cam bearings...

If your old thrust plate is not worn, re-use it.
It's best not to hit the cam bearings with the camshaft when installing or removing. Just go slow and use a stout 1/4" long extension inserted into the camshaft end to help give you some leverage. If you have a camshaft installer, use that instead.

Strype said:
1993 LX
The guy that told me that builds motors all the time for chevy's and used to own a mechanic shop and race. He told me just set it at 0 and put it in.

I'm an old GM guy myself, and I wouldn't suggest anyone to do this.

I suggest you do things correctly... if not... it's "half assed".
Half assed built setup gets you a half assed running setup.

Strype · Mar 8, 2009

Now I'm scared

Stock cam it is!

Maryland Stang · Mar 9, 2009

Strype said:
Now I'm scared

Stock cam it is!

Whoa there big boy. What is it that you're afraid of here? There's nothing that the B cam (or any other aftermarket cam) requires that the stock cam doesn't require.

You should be checking end play, camshaft timing and valve clearance anyway. You could just slap the stock cam back in without at least checking the cam timing but you're potentially leaving a good bit of power on the table by doing so. The same rules apply to all cams.

Strype · Mar 9, 2009

Maryland Stang said:
Whoa there big boy. What is it that you're afraid of here? There's nothing that the B cam (or any other aftermarket cam) requires that the stock cam doesn't require.

You should be checking end play, camshaft timing and valve clearance anyway. You could just slap the stock cam back in without at least checking the cam timing but you're potentially leaving a good bit of power on the table by doing so. The same rules apply to all cams.

I'm just worried. I've never done it before. I have a friend who suggested the fore and aft play check and the degree and he said he could put it in for me so maybe I let him do it!

Thanks guys I'd have run the chance of ruining my new heads without your input

1987stangman · Mar 9, 2009

347HO said:
You definitely want to check your camshaft endplay.
Too much or none will either take out your distributor gear or drive gear on the camshaft.
You will be very happy spending the effort and time degreeing in the cam. I can almost guarantee you it will be out by +/- 3 to 6*.
You have to understand the camshaft is not directly connected to the crank. You're dealing with tolerances in the camshaft bore and crankshaft bore centerlines, gears, chain and machining on the lobes.

This is ignorant advice given to you.

You should install the cam at 0*. The only way to do this is to degree it in. Relying on the zero mark on the cam gear and crank gear and disregarding the tolerances of everything else is ignorant.
I always suggest checking for PTV. Zeroing the camshaft is a good starting point, and if you encounter PTV issues due to moving the camshaft +/- 4 or 6 degrees... you had issues before you even started.

If your old thrust plate is not worn, re-use it.
It's best not to hit the cam bearings with the camshaft when installing or removing. Just go slow and use a stout 1/4" long extension inserted into the camshaft end to help give you some leverage. If you have a camshaft installer, use that instead.

I'm an old GM guy myself, and I wouldn't suggest anyone to do this.

I suggest you do things correctly... if not... it's "half assed".
Half assed built setup gets you a half assed running setup.

MMFF Magazine just did an article on installing a aftermarket cam (E-CAM, "Things that go bump in the night") Were you the author? I hope not because although the advice you gave is top notch your freaking this guy out. I don't think you will find to many folks on here that got a dizzy gear wiped out by installing a aftermarket cam straight up on even a 200K motor. Degreeing the cam is worth it, although I did not do it, but hey, 9k later an I have no issues.

BTW GM motors are GM motors and FORDs are FORDS.

347HO · Mar 9, 2009

1987stangman said:
MMFF Magazine just did an article on installing a aftermarket cam (E-CAM, "Things that go bump in the night") Were you the author?

1987stangman said:
your freaking this guy out.

Yeah, I noticed that too. I apologize, that's not my intention.
Everyone has to start somewhere, someplace. It's just nice not having to start at the very beginning. I've always been surrounded by extemely smart and experienced people in the performance world and has kept me from experiencing a lot of frustration and wasted money.

1987stangman said:
I don't think you will find to many folks on here that got a dizzy gear wiped out by installing a aftermarket cam straight up on even a 200K motor.

It's not that the new camshaft took out the distributor gear, it's the fact there's no endplay.
I do agree however, endplay most likely won't be an issue on a block with a lot of miles on the thrust washer and aft camshaft bearing cap.

Strype · Mar 13, 2009

U guys are great.

My buddy never degreed his either. I was told that as long as piton #1 is flush at the top and the marks are straight that it would be okay...

Might try and do it tonight but I might wait and call someone to degree it. I dunno. My neighbor (the chevy guy) asked one of his friends who builds ford motors and he said not to worry about degreeing it.

Is there a tech thread on degreeing a cam?

347HO · Mar 14, 2009

Most camshaft websites have tech sections with instructions.

I haven't searched this site for it, but it's probably here somewhere.

I know it's posted on *******. s_b_f_tech

Cobra912 · Mar 14, 2009

yeah I say install straight up, lots of lube. reuse plate and bolts and throw some blue loc-tite on them for good luck and torque them to spec.

I had my cam degreed on my 331 and found no change. No change was made.

Modular2v · Mar 14, 2009

Cobra912 said:
yeah I say install straight up, lots of lube. reuse plate and bolts and throw some blue loc-tite on them for good luck and torque them to spec.

I had my cam degreed on my 331 and found no change. No change was made.

most cams have the degreeing ground into them already

Strype · Mar 26, 2009

The dot on the bottom of the cam gear should line up at a 6:00 position with the crank gear's dot being at the 12:00 position right? If not I need to redo it

347HO · Mar 26, 2009

Strype said:
The dot on the bottom of the cam gear should line up at a 6:00 position with the crank gear's dot being at the 12:00 position right? If not I need to redo it

In most cases... yes. What did the cam card say?

Now, if you were to measure lobe lift by the manufacturers cam card, you should see the same results.
I have never, in 27 years, witnessed an OTS camshaft "dial in" where the cam card says it should be.
If you wanted maximum performance from your camshaft, you would degree it in at this time.
Degreeing makes up for the variances in the machining of the camshaft lobes, distance between cam and crank centerlines, dowel holes and key slots, chain or gear drive slack/lash.

Strype · Mar 26, 2009

347HO said:
In most cases... yes. What did the cam card say?

Now, if you were to measure lobe lift by the manufacturers cam card, you should see the same results.
I have never, in 27 years, witnessed an OTS camshaft "dial in" where the cam card says it should be.
If you wanted maximum performance from your camshaft, you would degree it in at this time.
Degreeing makes up for the variances in the machining of the camshaft lobes, distance between cam and crank centerlines, dowel holes and key slots, chain or gear drive slack/lash.

Ok I'll find a "how to" on degreeing. The cam is already in because 3 of my buddies never degree their cams and told me not to worry.

Mustang5L5 · Mar 26, 2009

Anyone got a "how to" on degreeing?? I plan on going the extra mile when i put my TFS cam in

89-347-LX · Mar 26, 2009

Mustang5L5 said:
Anyone got a "how to" on degreeing?? I plan on going the extra mile when i put my TFS cam in

here is an awesome PDF file on how too.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PDFs/Crane cams Degreeing a cam.pdf

Nova · Mar 26, 2009

just degree the cam for safety and performance. its not that hard. use the intake centerline method. it will be a few hours well spent to make sure your car performs as well as you dream.

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