Fox Can I Run A Dr With My Stock T5?

PakstinN · Aug 13, 2017

Hey boys. I know this topic has probably been beat to death but I have a quick question. I have been going to the strip a couple times lately and I am less than satisfied with the 60' times I've been getting.
The car with gt40p's, explorer intake, xe270, LT's, offload H, 3.73s, tubular upper and lower control arms, short shifter, and spec stage 1 doesn't seem to run anything below a 14.2@98..the best 60' time I can recall was something of the 2.1 range. I was thinking about putting on a set of drag radials to FINALLY get me into the 13s..my main question is will my stock t5 handle the launch with the sticky tires? I don't power shift EVER with it. and also how much would a stickier tire improve the time slips I'm getting. I've been pretty consistently in the low 14s with no traction period in first gear and highly limited traction in second. is this the missing piece of the puzzle to finally getting a 13 second time slip? HELP!

imp · Aug 14, 2017

PakstinN said:
Hey boys. I know this topic has probably been beat to death but I have a quick question. I have been going to the strip a couple times lately and I am less than satisfied with the 60' times I've been getting.
The car with gt40p's, explorer intake, xe270, LT's, offload H, 3.73s, tubular upper and lower control arms, short shifter, and spec stage 1 doesn't seem to run anything below a 14.2@98..the best 60' time I can recall was something of the 2.1 range. I was thinking about putting on a set of drag radials to FINALLY get me into the 13s..my main question is will my stock t5 handle the launch with the sticky tires? I don't power shift EVER with it. and also how much would a stickier tire improve the time slips I'm getting. I've been pretty consistently in the low 14s with no traction period in first gear and highly limited traction in second. is this the missing piece of the puzzle to finally getting a 13 second time slip? HELP!

@PakstinN
I doubt anyone can answer your question about the T-5 beyond conjecturing unless they have lived the experience. Given a comparison between T-5 and earlier stout transmissions, the Ford Top-Loader 4-Speed lived beyond expectations under really rough conditions. Why? I think because it was IRON, not Aluminum. Strength of gears in a box constructed of more-pliant material is relatively immaterial. Forces within these transmissions act to spread the Mainshaft/Outputshaft assemblies apart from the cluster gear. An aluminum case will allow this spread more easily than cast iron. Just sayin' imp

FastDriver · Aug 14, 2017

I broke a T5 on "weak" nitto drag radials, but I was powershifting. I think you might be able to keep it all together if you granny shift it.

cleanLX · Aug 14, 2017

Mine lived for 100's of passes with 235/60-15 drag radials... BUT... I was not dumping the clutch nor was I power shifting. Holding 4000rpm on the line and slipping it out to low 1.8sec 60 foots and running 13.2's shifting with a slight lift and a tap on the clutch pedal, just enough clutch to get it out of gear. Stock motor (218hp/276tq), full weight.
If I knew then what i know now, I would have skipped the drag radials and gone straight to bias ply, be it DOT or slick. Either one is easier on the drive train.

JD1964 · Aug 14, 2017

From what I hear 3rd gear is the weakest link in the stock T5. At least that won't play a role in your 60' times.

Hoytster · Aug 14, 2017

cleanLX said:
Mine lived for 100's of passes with 235/60-15 drag radials... BUT... I was not dumping the clutch nor was I power shifting. Holding 4000rpm on the line and slipping it out to low 1.8sec 60 foots and running 13.2's shifting with a slight lift and a tap on the clutch pedal, just enough clutch to get it out of gear. Stock motor (218hp/276tq), full weight.
If I knew then what i know now, I would have skipped the drag radials and gone straight to bias ply, be it DOT or slick. Either one is easier on the drive train.

^^^^^ What he said. It all depends on how you drive it. Power shifting is what killed all my stock T5's, that seemed to be the hardest on them. In stock form they are robust but definitely have their week links when you start beating on them.

7upstang91 · Aug 14, 2017

Could last a foot or 1320 feet...just depends how lucky you feel.

I've had a T-5 last for years at 400rwhp at the track.

I've also broken a T-5 on the street with street tires.

PakstinN · Aug 14, 2017

So the general consensus is t5 transmissions are highly inconsistent? They will either go into the 10s with 6k rpm clutch dumps or break third on streeters. No telling

Hoytster · Aug 14, 2017

PakstinN said:
So the general consensus is t5 transmissions are highly inconsistent? They will either go into the 10s with 6k rpm clutch dumps or break third on streeters. No telling

I wouldn't say the trans themselves are inconsistent, it's all the other variables that affect the trans. Such as what kind of tire your running, how hard you are hooking off the line (suspension), weight of the car, what RPM you launch at, how you shift the trans, ect. Keep in mind, these trans were designed to be behind a 215hp motor on street tires from the factory. They are robust for what they are designed for but anything beyond that, you are on borrowed time.

FastDriver · Aug 14, 2017

Nah, the consensus is that that T5 is ok on street tires shifting carefully, even at n/a 302 levels above stock. Otherwise, it's there's a risk.

deathb4dismount · Aug 14, 2017

Whether or not your T5 will hold up to drag radials is a matter of the sum of all your parts. If you have subframes, good control arms, and a clutch that grabs all of the power your engine makes, then the T5 will be the weak link and wont be able to take much abuse. Roll on the clutch, don't dump it and don't power shift and you should be ok.

Your mods should have that car in the 13s. What control arms do you have? How are the bushings? Subframes?

PakstinN · Aug 14, 2017

deathb4dismount said:
Whether or not your T5 will hold up to drag radials is a matter of the sum of all your parts. If you have subframes, good control arms, and a clutch that grabs all of the power your engine makes, then the T5 will be the weak link and wont be able to take much abuse. Roll on the clutch, don't dump it and don't power shift and you should be ok.

Your mods should have that car in the 13s. What control arms do you have? How are the bushings? Subframes?

they are sve cheapo upper and lowers...no subframe connectors yet.

revhead347 · Aug 14, 2017

deathb4dismount said:
Whether or not your T5 will hold up to drag radials is a matter of the sum of all your parts. If you have subframes, good control arms, and a clutch that grabs all of the power your engine makes, then the T5 will be the weak link and wont be able to take much abuse. Roll on the clutch, don't dump it and don't power shift and you should be ok.

Your mods should have that car in the 13s. What control arms do you have? How are the bushings? Subframes?

What he is saying, is don't let your T5 be the weak link. Rev it to 6000rpms and dump the clutch. You want the tires to spin a little bit before they grab. The worst thing that can happen is the car bogs, and all that weight comes back through the drivetrain and breaks something.

So lots of people run DRs on a T5. Some don't know any better, and some don't care if they have to pull the transmission apart. It depends on how committed you are to that sub 2 second 60 foot time. Be ready to fix a broken transmission. I used to be partnered in a performance business where we fixed manual transmissions all the time. I say "fixed" transmissions, because "rebuild" is a bull term for manual transmissions. Most of these "rebuild" guys yank it apart, throw a soft parts kit in there, and never actually look at what's wrong with it. I've fixed a few dozen T5s, so the risk of breaking the transmission isn't going to affect my tire decisions that much. You have to pick the level of risk that is right for you.

Kurt

PakstinN · Aug 14, 2017

revhead347 said:
What he is saying, is don't let your T5 be the weak link. Rev it to 6000rpms and dump the clutch. You want the tires to spin a little bit before they grab. The worst thing that can happen is the car bogs, and all that weight comes back through the drivetrain and breaks something.

So lots of people run DRs on a T5. Some don't know any better, and some don't care if they have to pull the transmission apart. It depends on how committed you are to that sub 2 second 60 foot time. Be ready to fix a broken transmission. I used to be partnered in a performance business where we fixed manual transmissions all the time. I say "fixed" transmissions, because "rebuild" is a bull term for manual transmissions. Most of these "rebuild" guys yank it apart, throw a soft parts kit in there, and never actually look at what's wrong with it. I've fixed a few dozen T5s, so the risk of breaking the transmission isn't going to affect my tire decisions that much. You have to pick the level of risk that is right for you.

Kurt

so use rpm to overcome traction. let the car spin a little before it hooks and in doing so you relieve a lot of pressure that otherwise would have been on the transmission, correct?

cleanLX · Aug 15, 2017

well... yes... trouble is dr's don't recover from a spin... and since you don't want to dead hook for fear of axles and transmission, that leaves you no option but to slip the clutch if you want to launch hard... or, leave off idle.
Are you going to use these tires as a daily thing, or just for the track? If just for the track I suggest you look at a bias tire. They are much less violent, are less dependent on track prep, will hook even when spinning, and will recover from a spin... I also find they last longer. rpm still applies, you want the tires to roll over a couple times coming off the line, so, start with more psi and rpm than you think is sane, and dial it back from there.
Best thing I ever did was get rid of dr's and go back to bias for track work. I still run dr's on the street, but they are just too temperamental and inconsistent with a typical street/strip manual car for track day.
Leave the dr's to automatic cars or guys that have the time/resources to dial in clutch and pressure plates, or who have the money for adjustable slip'r clutches.
My .02.
Oh, and back to part of your original question... get that 60' down in the mid/low 1.7's and you should be good for 13.7's with 97-98mph... possibly quicker.

PakstinN · Aug 15, 2017

Yeah I'm looking for a tire that sees track only. So you are saying bias ply slick? Who makes them? What size can I run? With bias ply am I still going to need a driveshaft loop or is that more for radial slicks?

PakstinN · Aug 15, 2017

My car has the standard 16x7.5 (not totally sure of width) pony wheels

cleanLX · Aug 15, 2017

Bias ply yes, slick or DOT...
You will need a d/s loop for the bias... cannot recall the rules for certain, but I think a dr would not require a loop... unless they updated... last I looked at that was 17 years ago ...
I'm pretty sure Hoosier makes a couple 16" Quick Time Pros (DOT) that will fit the wheel well... the DOT's are nice as you can drive them on the street. If you plan on changing them at the track a true slick may be the better option... but I think most 16" slicks are in the 33" height range...
Look, not that dr's are bad, they just take more driver finesse... or preferably a clutch set up to work with them... lots of guys running them and happy, just stating my opinion/experience.
If you had a 15" wheels (turbines, 10 holes?) you bias selection would be much greater.

General karthief · Aug 15, 2017

Driveshaft loop is a good idea anyway, safety first.
Ever see the dreaded '150 ft pole vault'?

PakstinN · Aug 15, 2017

cleanLX said:
Bias ply yes, slick or DOT...
You will need a d/s loop for the bias... cannot recall the rules for certain, but I think a dr would not require a loop... unless they updated... last I looked at that was 17 years ago ...
I'm pretty sure Hoosier makes a couple 16" Quick Time Pros (DOT) that will fit the wheel well... the DOT's are nice as you can drive them on the street. If you plan on changing them at the track a true slick may be the better option... but I think most 16" slicks are in the 33" height range...
Look, not that dr's are bad, they just take more driver finesse... or preferably a clutch set up to work with them... lots of guys running them and happy, just stating my opinion/experience.
If you had a 15" wheels (turbines, 10 holes?) you bias selection would be much greater.

I really like what you said about them being less violent. Sounds easier on tranny and axles. I can get turbines for $50

Fox Can I Run A Dr With My Stock T5?

PakstinN

Member

imp

Mustang Master

FastDriver

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

cleanLX

JD1964

there is enough sticking out to grab on to

Hoytster

I don't dare do that to my Knob

7upstang91

PakstinN

Member

Hoytster

I don't dare do that to my Knob

FastDriver

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

deathb4dismount

Crap, didn’t realize my crotch was in that picture

PakstinN

Member

revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.

PakstinN

Member

cleanLX

PakstinN

Member

PakstinN

Member

cleanLX

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

PakstinN

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Fox Can I Run A Dr With My Stock T5?

Member

Mustang Master

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

there is enough sticking out to grab on to

I don't dare do that to my Knob

Member

I don't dare do that to my Knob

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

Crap, didn’t realize my crotch was in that picture

Member

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.

Member

Member

Member

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

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